1
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Hello, hello, test 1-2.

2
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Alright, that should work. Let's do it. Just clip it on.

3
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Already live, already recording.

4
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You know what I think about edits and post-processing and...

5
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Plenty of microphone bumping sounds.

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All those kind of things.

7
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And I'm not even going to test it.

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You know, it's just like, I believe in technology.

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It's going to work. It has to work.

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And it has to select the right microphone channel, hopefully.

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I had issues with that in the past.

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It's like recording from your pocket.

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Exactly. That's the worst because then I actually have to

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get the audio off the little microphones and it's lots of manual labor.

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And so the whole point of everything I'm building right now is to

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minimize manual labor in cyberspace, basically, like automate all the things.

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Automate everything.

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There's so many retarded things that can be automated.

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And also to just posting stuff, whatever.

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Jesus just talked about this where it's like, sometimes you use a NOSA client

21
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that doesn't have NOSA wallet connected up or whatever.

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And you just want to, like, everything that I like with a lighting bold emoji,

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I should have a demon run in the background that just saps everything like 21 sets or whatever.

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Yeah.

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Like, you can automate all this stuff. Why not? Let's build an army, a robot army for ourselves.

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Yeah. Yeah. That's the cool part is that.

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Let's not get hit by traffic.

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Yeah. That's not going to end well.

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Now, you can automate all this stuff.

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And you see it with, I think it like quite a few years back,

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there was like, what is it like this is zap it?

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It was like, if this then else and like those stuff.

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Oh, yeah, if this then that.

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But they are so brittle because APIs are brittle.

35
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Exactly.

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Because they're not, they're, they're not you.

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They're like, there's some, you're.

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It's permissioned.

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It's permissioned.

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Permissioned automation.

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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And like, what we want to have is permissionless automation.

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Yeah, permissionless.

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And that's like.

46
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Yeah.

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It depends where you run it.

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But like, your own hardware is usually permissionless.

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Hopefully.

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Hopefully.

51
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I mean, we're entering danger.

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Dangerous territory there.

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Yeah, that's the point.

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And I mean, that's the, I'm still surprised, by the way, that.

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Because the self hosting people.

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And the local first people and so on.

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They have the right ideas, but they're still outside of our bubble.

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And so I wonder when this will happen.

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That we hopefully managed to.

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Eating sounds.

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Eating sounds is going to be a new experience.

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But it will hopefully, it will hopefully happen that we.

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We'll bring those groups of people together that.

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At least identify the problem right.

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Yeah.

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Because they got the problem right.

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And the solution is also partly right.

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Move like self hosting and so on.

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I think there may be, there's two barriers there.

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There's one of them is like, it's not obvious what the identity is.

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That we kind of stumbled on with Noster.

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It's like, the identity should be outside of the computer.

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In some sense, like the private key.

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Yeah, the private key is like a number, but it's not on your computer.

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You can generate it alone in the toilet with all the computer.

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Yeah, that's what makes Bitcoin so powerful.

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That's what makes Noster so powerful.

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Right.

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And the, so there's that, they're like, they try to like,

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you see it with like the, a lot like the mesh networking offline stuff is like.

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Yeah.

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There, in some sense, a lot of those systems, the identity is the node.

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Yeah, not the user.

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I see.

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And so you end up with weird things like what's talking to what?

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You have like these users trying to talk over a system that isn't them in some sense.

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So like, it's missing the identity.

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Yeah, I see.

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Yeah.

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Damn, I forgot the last point.

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I have a second one.

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What's up?

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Welcome back.

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Once you're hit by a car, it will come back.

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Just be too late then.

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That's a great point.

97
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You said to get them in to get them.

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What was your exact wording before?

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I don't know.

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What did we talk about?

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Damn it.

102
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The robot automation stuff is what I talked about.

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All the stepping people.

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No, no, no, just a few minutes ago.

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The local first people.

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The local first people.

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The south hosting people in the local first people.

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South hosting is definitely part of the solution.

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But I don't think you want to.

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That's what it was.

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There you go.

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They mix private and public up a little too much.

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I think there's a, I was talking to Pete and Paul earlier today.

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The local first is not explicitly private.

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And if you default it to building it that way,

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I just make all the local stuff on machine.

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It's just private by default.

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Now you're building applications for private use cases when.

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They don't have network effect by definition.

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Right.

121
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And the unexplored territory is the public use cases.

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The permissionless public software.

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What they have wrong in some sense.

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And that's why I think the 60s is awesome.

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You see it with like, like, next cloud is a good example.

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I mean, it has a lot of other problems.

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But like, you deploy next cloud and by default it's private.

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Even though what you really want,

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the biggest benefit you probably get from like a personal cloud is like

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having something that you just like give to people.

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Here's a link of all my files that I like.

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Take a look at it.

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I think what you're hinting at is.

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I think what Nostra got right with like your DMs are private

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on Nostra and they follow you around.

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So it doesn't, it private doesn't mean that it's just on one machine

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which is localhost.

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Private means it's encrypted with your key.

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But the data can and should be kind of everywhere.

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Because I want to fetch it no matter where I am, right?

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And so if I want to save private stuff,

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it's fine if it's in a hundred different machines.

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Like, the reason why Bitcoin is so powerful and the reason why Bitcoin works

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is because information is easy to spread and hard to stifle.

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That's a direct tutorial she quote.

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Nostra same thing with Nostra.

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Same idea.

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Information is easy to spread, hard to stifle.

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And so, an anti-pattern kind of in computer science

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and in like all the systems that we see is pretending

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as if this was not the case.

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Like a great example of this is DRM, right?

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Like digital rights management blah blah blah all those kind of shit.

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Because it pretends that information is actually hard to copy.

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Yeah, yeah, yeah.

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Which is completely misguided.

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It's just not true.

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Information is incredibly easy to copy.

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Computers are copying machines.

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And on Nostra side we should heavily lean into that.

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We should lean into that so hard.

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It should be everywhere.

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It should be on my local relay.

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It should be on the big relays.

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It should be on the community relay.

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It should be on the paid relay.

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All the stuff should be everywhere.

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And if it's private information, it should be encrypted with my key.

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Yeah, that's an interesting thing with like a lot of the existing like local first applications.

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The applications are great.

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But then I just find myself wanting like,

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man, I want to I want to move this data now.

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Like I want to move the local.

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And usually because yeah, they're built in such a way where like they pretend

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that the data can't be copied.

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Yeah.

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And so it's like pretending that water isn't wet.

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Yeah, and then they build walls around and we're like,

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oh, we'll make sure it can't be copied.

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And it's like, it's actually one of the features I want as a user.

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Yeah.

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It's like to take whatever data is like semi local and like move it.

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Yeah, so I told you I'm building the reader thing now.

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And the powerful thing about Nostra I think,

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which we didn't exploit yet fully,

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is like every Nostra app should be,

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should work almost perfectly in flight mode.

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Because if you have a local relay,

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and it's very easy to bundle an app with a local relay.

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Like it wasn't in the wasn't days,

191
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it shouldn't be that hard.

192
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But all my apps going forward will assume that the user has a local relay.

193
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And if you run a local relay,

194
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everything is cashed, everything's there.

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I don't care.

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It's just like loaded from the local relay.

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Also in terms of flight mode, if I read,

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I read offline, I mean literally in the airplane,

199
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I read, I create highlights,

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it's all on my local relay, I'm offline.

201
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And the thing just periodically checks,

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hey, once you're online again,

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take everything that's on the local relay and re-procased it.

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Yeah.

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Offline mode achieved.

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Put it back on that.

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We've out, we've out actually doing anything fancy.

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But it's that, it's that.

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I don't know, that's very noisy.

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Yeah, that's very noisy.

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It's so bad.

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It's so bad.

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It's the least annoying noises are.

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No, it's that, it's that,

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let's go this way first.

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I like that, yeah.

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Let's go this way and just as long as we can

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it then turn around.

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But that's the,

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that's the, it's that assumption.

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The assumption has to be there first of like,

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let me assume that there's something there to build,

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like, I don't know, it's like the building blocks already there.

224
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Like the building block has to be there.

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Let me just assume that there's a relay locally

226
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and then you rely on it completely.

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Hmm.

228
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I mean, it's the first step in that direction,

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in a sense that if the local relay isn't there,

230
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the whole thing doesn't break completely.

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It's just like, okay, then you're offline.

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Yeah.

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You know, it's, it's the status quo basically.

234
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But if you have a local relay, everything works perfectly

235
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as if you were online basically.

236
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The interesting thing too is like with the local relay approach

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that, because like, again, like what we,

238
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like all these ideas are kind of talked about already.

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And it's just now becoming either possible

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or obvious why they need to be a thing.

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But the local relay, the interesting thing about the relay,

242
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I realize, was that when you connect

243
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in like the global, the internet, the Noster Relay system,

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like the public relays.

245
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Yeah.

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And this, I guess I've been struggling with like,

247
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putting global relays and apps is like,

248
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you always have to ask, like,

249
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even if you have outbox model,

250
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which is just for pulling your, like, your follower feed.

251
00:10:04,000 --> 00:10:05,000
Even if you have a model like that,

252
00:10:05,000 --> 00:10:09,000
you always have to ask the user what they want to connect to.

253
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So it's always like, if you go with global,

254
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it's always, it's either you hard-code it in a brakes

255
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or you ask the user, in other words,

256
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you ask the user for their preferences.

257
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And what they want.

258
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And that's the kind of friction right there.

259
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But if you have local first,

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I just grab the user's preferences.

261
00:10:27,000 --> 00:10:31,000
In my apps, I always have like a hard-coded list.

262
00:10:31,000 --> 00:10:33,000
It's just, you know, well, you know,

263
00:10:33,000 --> 00:10:35,000
just to avoid this problem.

264
00:10:35,000 --> 00:10:36,000
But once the user locks in,

265
00:10:36,000 --> 00:10:38,000
I just grab all the relays of the user

266
00:10:38,000 --> 00:10:40,000
and just add it to the pool and that's it.

267
00:10:40,000 --> 00:10:41,000
Yeah, yeah.

268
00:10:41,000 --> 00:10:43,000
I'm not afraid of, you know, just blasting stuff

269
00:10:43,000 --> 00:10:44,000
to like 50 plus relays.

270
00:10:44,000 --> 00:10:45,000
I don't care.

271
00:10:45,000 --> 00:10:46,000
Well, it's not like, it's not the broadcast.

272
00:10:46,000 --> 00:10:50,000
It's like when the user's trying to read something.

273
00:10:50,000 --> 00:10:51,000
Like if I want to browse,

274
00:10:51,000 --> 00:10:52,000
or if I want to search,

275
00:10:52,000 --> 00:10:54,000
or if I want to browse like an article,

276
00:10:54,000 --> 00:10:55,000
like my article feed.

277
00:10:55,000 --> 00:10:57,000
Let's talk about search, actually.

278
00:10:57,000 --> 00:10:59,000
You brought up an interesting point

279
00:10:59,000 --> 00:11:02,000
because you got ants now as well.

280
00:11:02,000 --> 00:11:04,000
This is how you get ants.

281
00:11:04,000 --> 00:11:06,000
I actually owned an domain.

282
00:11:06,000 --> 00:11:08,000
This is how you get ants.com.

283
00:11:08,000 --> 00:11:10,000
And it will actually point you to the search.

284
00:11:10,000 --> 00:11:12,000
I'll just still have to set up the forward.

285
00:11:12,000 --> 00:11:13,000
But that's the idea.

286
00:11:13,000 --> 00:11:15,000
So I both have,

287
00:11:15,000 --> 00:11:16,000
this is how you get ants.com.

288
00:11:16,000 --> 00:11:17,000
And I have also,

289
00:11:17,000 --> 00:11:19,000
don't get ants.com.

290
00:11:19,000 --> 00:11:21,000
Because you actually know when I get ants, actually.

291
00:11:21,000 --> 00:11:23,000
A few people know.

292
00:11:23,000 --> 00:11:27,000
But the whole point of ants was basically just to build a

293
00:11:27,000 --> 00:11:31,000
Noster band-like search interface that just uses Nip50.

294
00:11:31,000 --> 00:11:34,000
And just some other like quasi-smart things.

295
00:11:34,000 --> 00:11:36,000
And as you pointed out, right now it's very slow.

296
00:11:36,000 --> 00:11:37,000
It's like, yeah.

297
00:11:37,000 --> 00:11:38,000
It's super stupid.

298
00:11:38,000 --> 00:11:42,000
Like I have a list of two dudes that we can improve that super easily.

299
00:11:42,000 --> 00:11:44,000
But your question was basically, okay.

300
00:11:44,000 --> 00:11:49,000
How can you get data that's interesting to the user,

301
00:11:49,000 --> 00:11:52,000
like the local data of the user that's everywhere.

302
00:11:52,000 --> 00:11:56,000
How can you get it onto the local site, so to speak, right?

303
00:11:56,000 --> 00:11:58,000
There was kind of part of your question, no?

304
00:11:58,000 --> 00:11:59,000
In the search context.

305
00:11:59,000 --> 00:12:00,000
How can you,

306
00:12:00,000 --> 00:12:05,000
and I told you, you just go out and you have like a background worker,

307
00:12:05,000 --> 00:12:09,000
or a demon, or whatever, that just constantly hits all the relays

308
00:12:09,000 --> 00:12:10,000
that is constantly online.

309
00:12:10,000 --> 00:12:12,000
It's like on a BPS or somewhere.

310
00:12:12,000 --> 00:12:14,000
We see some of these things popping up.

311
00:12:14,000 --> 00:12:19,000
And you just, you just basically put in your ant pump

312
00:12:19,000 --> 00:12:21,000
and everything that's related to the ant pump,

313
00:12:21,000 --> 00:12:22,000
you just pull in.

314
00:12:22,000 --> 00:12:26,000
You pull in on your local one, so to speak.

315
00:12:26,000 --> 00:12:28,000
Well, that's like, I mean, it can get smarter.

316
00:12:28,000 --> 00:12:32,000
But like, let's say, it feels like that's like version one

317
00:12:32,000 --> 00:12:34,000
of the web of trust.

318
00:12:34,000 --> 00:12:36,000
It's like, it's a 90th implementation.

319
00:12:36,000 --> 00:12:40,000
It'll get you 90% there, but it's not what actually is happening.

320
00:12:40,000 --> 00:12:44,000
But the only parameter you want to play around with is like,

321
00:12:44,000 --> 00:12:47,000
you build it in a general way, and you just have like,

322
00:12:47,000 --> 00:12:49,000
you know, the six degrees of separation, right?

323
00:12:49,000 --> 00:12:51,000
And you just have like an equal zero is just your stuff.

324
00:12:51,000 --> 00:12:54,000
An equals one is your stuff and your friends.

325
00:12:54,000 --> 00:12:59,000
An equals two is your stuff and your friends and the friends of the friends.

326
00:12:59,000 --> 00:13:02,000
And an equal six, like what we know about graph theory,

327
00:13:02,000 --> 00:13:04,000
is like, if you put it on an equal six,

328
00:13:04,000 --> 00:13:05,000
you have the whole no-server.

329
00:13:05,000 --> 00:13:06,000
Yeah, you have the whole no-server.

330
00:13:06,000 --> 00:13:07,000
Like the quote unquote, global.

331
00:13:07,000 --> 00:13:09,000
Like all the stuff you connected to basically.

332
00:13:09,000 --> 00:13:11,000
But the interesting thing, too, is like,

333
00:13:11,000 --> 00:13:14,000
so, I mean, that's like the basic web of trust.

334
00:13:14,000 --> 00:13:18,000
Like, we know it gets you almost all the way there

335
00:13:18,000 --> 00:13:21,000
for interesting stuff, like what you care about.

336
00:13:21,000 --> 00:13:24,000
Because in some sense, it all comes from the,

337
00:13:24,000 --> 00:13:27,000
it all is based entirely on the assumption

338
00:13:27,000 --> 00:13:33,000
that you constantly curate your local friends.

339
00:13:33,000 --> 00:13:36,000
Because if you don't like, if that breaks and like people stop,

340
00:13:36,000 --> 00:13:39,000
in other words, if we don't have the social layer of Noster,

341
00:13:39,000 --> 00:13:41,000
where you're doing that, because like,

342
00:13:41,000 --> 00:13:42,000
Sure.

343
00:13:42,000 --> 00:13:45,000
If we don't have people browsing the social feed and curating follows,

344
00:13:45,000 --> 00:13:48,000
then you don't have that, like basically that first step of like,

345
00:13:48,000 --> 00:13:50,000
what is the user's preference?

346
00:13:50,000 --> 00:13:51,000
Yeah.

347
00:13:51,000 --> 00:13:52,000
Sure.

348
00:13:52,000 --> 00:13:53,000
And then, yeah.

349
00:13:53,000 --> 00:13:55,000
I mean, that's the, that's the,

350
00:13:55,000 --> 00:13:58,000
that's the presupposition, basically, I guess,

351
00:13:58,000 --> 00:14:00,000
that's the, we have to assume that I also,

352
00:14:00,000 --> 00:14:02,000
I don't like automating that away in some sense.

353
00:14:02,000 --> 00:14:03,000
No.

354
00:14:03,000 --> 00:14:06,000
I, every time you introduce algorithms in terms of like,

355
00:14:06,000 --> 00:14:08,000
who to follow and all those kind of things,

356
00:14:08,000 --> 00:14:10,000
on some platforms, they kind of work,

357
00:14:10,000 --> 00:14:13,000
but it always gives you the middle of the bell curve stuff,

358
00:14:13,000 --> 00:14:15,000
basically, the other people,

359
00:14:15,000 --> 00:14:17,000
it caters to the lowest common denominator,

360
00:14:17,000 --> 00:14:20,000
always kind of by definition in some sense.

361
00:14:20,000 --> 00:14:21,000
I think.

362
00:14:21,000 --> 00:14:22,000
It's almost like an anti-pattern,

363
00:14:22,000 --> 00:14:24,000
and like, if you want, I think it's an anti-pattern.

364
00:14:24,000 --> 00:14:25,000
It's like based on popularity.

365
00:14:25,000 --> 00:14:27,000
Like, don't mess with my follow list.

366
00:14:27,000 --> 00:14:29,000
Like, I always hated that.

367
00:14:29,000 --> 00:14:30,000
I always hated that.

368
00:14:30,000 --> 00:14:32,000
For everything, also for the reading apps, for example,

369
00:14:32,000 --> 00:14:33,000
it's like, oh, here's some, you read,

370
00:14:33,000 --> 00:14:36,000
you've, you've been reading those three articles.

371
00:14:36,000 --> 00:14:38,000
Here's some other articles that you're interested in,

372
00:14:38,000 --> 00:14:39,000
and it's always garbage.

373
00:14:39,000 --> 00:14:40,000
It's always garbage.

374
00:14:40,000 --> 00:14:41,000
I'm never interested in that stuff.

375
00:14:41,000 --> 00:14:44,000
And, and I'm not sure, I, I don't know.

376
00:14:44,000 --> 00:14:46,000
I, I'm not sure if you can,

377
00:14:46,000 --> 00:14:47,000
I mean, there is discovery,

378
00:14:47,000 --> 00:14:49,000
noster has a discovery problem, and so on.

379
00:14:49,000 --> 00:14:52,000
I, I don't argue that, but,

380
00:14:52,000 --> 00:14:54,000
we, you have to draw the line somewhere,

381
00:14:54,000 --> 00:14:56,000
and I think the line in the sand for me is like,

382
00:14:56,000 --> 00:14:57,000
don't touch my follow list, in some sense.

383
00:14:57,000 --> 00:14:59,000
And, and on, on the other extreme,

384
00:14:59,000 --> 00:15:01,000
it's like, you, you, you remember Google Plus

385
00:15:01,000 --> 00:15:02,000
with the circles, and so on.

386
00:15:02,000 --> 00:15:03,000
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

387
00:15:03,000 --> 00:15:05,000
If you have to do that, no one's going to do it.

388
00:15:05,000 --> 00:15:08,000
If I have to hand curate 15 different circles,

389
00:15:08,000 --> 00:15:09,000
it's like, going to be.

390
00:15:09,000 --> 00:15:12,000
That's the thing is, like, because I think there's something

391
00:15:12,000 --> 00:15:14,000
we don't understand it yet, and we,

392
00:15:14,000 --> 00:15:17,000
we might get there, but like, it's,

393
00:15:17,000 --> 00:15:18,000
it's working, in some sense.

394
00:15:18,000 --> 00:15:20,000
And like, the dough, like, don't touch my follow list.

395
00:15:20,000 --> 00:15:21,000
It's a great thing.

396
00:15:21,000 --> 00:15:22,000
It's like, there's something there.

397
00:15:22,000 --> 00:15:24,000
There's something about user preference,

398
00:15:24,000 --> 00:15:26,000
and it's probably different for everybody.

399
00:15:26,000 --> 00:15:28,000
But like, we've somehow managed, like,

400
00:15:28,000 --> 00:15:30,000
somehow like bootstrapping with memes and the social feed,

401
00:15:30,000 --> 00:15:33,000
has somehow managed to create this.

402
00:15:33,000 --> 00:15:35,000
Yeah, just saying good morning, I love it.

403
00:15:35,000 --> 00:15:37,000
Yeah, like, you can more, like,

404
00:15:37,000 --> 00:15:39,000
we have this bit of thing in the, in the,

405
00:15:39,000 --> 00:15:41,000
in the internet now, which is,

406
00:15:41,000 --> 00:15:45,000
the best representation of some generic user preference

407
00:15:45,000 --> 00:15:47,000
that we've got outside of an algorithm.

408
00:15:47,000 --> 00:15:49,000
It's not just like popularity base.

409
00:15:49,000 --> 00:15:50,000
Like, oh, he clicked the like button.

410
00:15:50,000 --> 00:15:51,000
And therefore, he likes this stuff.

411
00:15:51,000 --> 00:15:54,000
Yeah, it's actually kind of real connections in some sense.

412
00:15:54,000 --> 00:15:55,000
Yeah.

413
00:15:55,000 --> 00:15:56,000
It's like, you really get to know the people,

414
00:15:56,000 --> 00:15:58,000
just if they post good morning,

415
00:15:58,000 --> 00:15:59,000
if they post good night, if they post memes.

416
00:15:59,000 --> 00:16:00,000
Whatever day post, it doesn't matter.

417
00:16:00,000 --> 00:16:03,000
You get to know someone kind of through the internet a bit.

418
00:16:03,000 --> 00:16:05,000
And, you know, of course, you know,

419
00:16:05,000 --> 00:16:07,000
real life and internet are, you know,

420
00:16:07,000 --> 00:16:10,000
sometimes, sometimes their overlap isn't that big.

421
00:16:10,000 --> 00:16:13,000
How someone is online, and how someone is offline, and so on.

422
00:16:13,000 --> 00:16:14,000
But still, it really works.

423
00:16:14,000 --> 00:16:16,000
And just by saying good morning,

424
00:16:16,000 --> 00:16:19,000
and posting whatever you're interested in,

425
00:16:19,000 --> 00:16:22,000
I think, I think that's where Noster can really shine.

426
00:16:22,000 --> 00:16:25,000
That's why I think we shouldn't mess with it so much

427
00:16:25,000 --> 00:16:27,000
on the discoverability front.

428
00:16:27,000 --> 00:16:29,000
Like, like, a primal, for example,

429
00:16:29,000 --> 00:16:31,000
got a lot of flack by pre-populating the follows.

430
00:16:31,000 --> 00:16:33,000
That was did in the beginning as well.

431
00:16:33,000 --> 00:16:34,000
Yeah.

432
00:16:34,000 --> 00:16:35,000
And then it's like, you, you install an app,

433
00:16:35,000 --> 00:16:37,000
and you, you're completely new to this stuff,

434
00:16:37,000 --> 00:16:39,000
and it's like, okay, why do I follow those like 30 people?

435
00:16:39,000 --> 00:16:41,000
And all they talk about is like Bitcoin, you know?

436
00:16:41,000 --> 00:16:42,000
Yeah.

437
00:16:42,000 --> 00:16:43,000
It's like, what the hell?

438
00:16:43,000 --> 00:16:44,000
Well, it's kind of off-putting,

439
00:16:44,000 --> 00:16:47,000
because again, you just like assigned users like a preference.

440
00:16:47,000 --> 00:16:48,000
Yeah.

441
00:16:48,000 --> 00:16:49,000
And like, this is, it's the same thing.

442
00:16:49,000 --> 00:16:52,000
I mean, if you detox from like ads and YouTube for a while,

443
00:16:52,000 --> 00:16:54,000
you come back to the YouTube homepage, you're like,

444
00:16:54,000 --> 00:16:55,000
oh, my lord.

445
00:16:55,000 --> 00:16:58,000
It's like, what, like, this is like,

446
00:16:58,000 --> 00:17:00,000
it's not just like stuff I'm not interested in,

447
00:17:00,000 --> 00:17:02,000
it's insulting me stuff I'm not interested in.

448
00:17:02,000 --> 00:17:03,000
Yeah.

449
00:17:03,000 --> 00:17:04,000
Like, why would you think I'm ever interested in this?

450
00:17:04,000 --> 00:17:05,000
Absolutely.

451
00:17:05,000 --> 00:17:07,000
And it's the same kind of like, set the user preference.

452
00:17:07,000 --> 00:17:08,000
And really backfire.

453
00:17:08,000 --> 00:17:11,000
I think where Noster can shine is on the realness park.

454
00:17:11,000 --> 00:17:12,000
Like, lots of social media,

455
00:17:12,000 --> 00:17:14,000
lots of internet stuff is completely fake.

456
00:17:14,000 --> 00:17:15,000
Yeah.

457
00:17:15,000 --> 00:17:19,000
And Noster, up to now, at least, yet.

458
00:17:19,000 --> 00:17:21,000
Like, Noster isn't yet.

459
00:17:21,000 --> 00:17:24,000
And I think we, I hope we can manage to keep it that way.

460
00:17:24,000 --> 00:17:26,000
And what I build into the, into ads, for example,

461
00:17:26,000 --> 00:17:28,000
what I build into the search,

462
00:17:28,000 --> 00:17:29,000
I rank or the profiles.

463
00:17:29,000 --> 00:17:30,000
I mean, I use Vertex as the base.

464
00:17:30,000 --> 00:17:31,000
Yeah.

465
00:17:31,000 --> 00:17:33,000
If you can't hit Vertex, use Vertex.

466
00:17:33,000 --> 00:17:38,000
Graph theory beats my like super stupid ranking.

467
00:17:38,000 --> 00:17:40,000
But in terms of figuring out,

468
00:17:40,000 --> 00:17:43,000
who do you mean when you look, when you search for John?

469
00:17:43,000 --> 00:17:45,000
Let's say, images posted by John.

470
00:17:45,000 --> 00:17:46,000
Okay?

471
00:17:46,000 --> 00:17:49,000
That's a query that you can do very easily in the search.

472
00:17:49,000 --> 00:17:53,000
And the first step is to figure out who is John.

473
00:17:53,000 --> 00:17:54,000
Yeah.

474
00:17:54,000 --> 00:17:57,000
Because there is no global, that's a very hard thing to do.

475
00:17:57,000 --> 00:18:00,000
You can do a global page rank, but it depends on what relays you hit,

476
00:18:00,000 --> 00:18:01,000
all those kind of things.

477
00:18:01,000 --> 00:18:02,000
Cheers.

478
00:18:02,000 --> 00:18:05,000
If you log in, it will actually query all your relays.

479
00:18:05,000 --> 00:18:07,000
Figure, try to figure out who John is.

480
00:18:07,000 --> 00:18:09,000
If you follow John, it's probably this John.

481
00:18:09,000 --> 00:18:10,000
Yep.

482
00:18:10,000 --> 00:18:13,000
If the John, if you don't follow a John,

483
00:18:13,000 --> 00:18:14,000
then it's about realness.

484
00:18:14,000 --> 00:18:16,000
Who is actually the real John?

485
00:18:16,000 --> 00:18:17,000
Who isn't the bot?

486
00:18:17,000 --> 00:18:18,000
Who isn't the bridge account?

487
00:18:18,000 --> 00:18:21,000
Who isn't like, just was created 10 seconds ago and so on.

488
00:18:21,000 --> 00:18:24,000
And so what I use is, nipple 5, I use it extensively.

489
00:18:24,000 --> 00:18:26,000
And if you have a nipple 5 set,

490
00:18:26,000 --> 00:18:29,000
you're more real than someone without a nipple 5.

491
00:18:29,000 --> 00:18:30,000
Yeah.

492
00:18:30,000 --> 00:18:33,000
It's a very opinionated software, so people will argue about that.

493
00:18:33,000 --> 00:18:37,000
But if you have a nipple 5 that doesn't resolve to the end,

494
00:18:38,000 --> 00:18:40,000
you're obviously fake.

495
00:18:40,000 --> 00:18:42,000
That's a high signal that you're fake.

496
00:18:42,000 --> 00:18:44,000
Quite a lot of actual fake accounts are not so that have that.

497
00:18:44,000 --> 00:18:46,000
If you, I know, I figured that out.

498
00:18:46,000 --> 00:18:50,000
If you have a nipple 5, and it's the root level domain of the nipple 5,

499
00:18:50,000 --> 00:18:53,000
like editorgg.com, very likely a real account.

500
00:18:53,000 --> 00:18:54,000
Yep.

501
00:18:54,000 --> 00:18:56,000
If you have a lightning address set,

502
00:18:56,000 --> 00:18:58,000
if you are a SAP, I will also speak,

503
00:18:58,000 --> 00:19:00,000
you're more real than if you're not SAPable.

504
00:19:00,000 --> 00:19:02,000
If you ever receive the SAP,

505
00:19:02,000 --> 00:19:04,000
you're more real than if you have never received the SAP.

506
00:19:04,000 --> 00:19:06,000
If you ever send the SAP, you're even more real than you are.

507
00:19:07,000 --> 00:19:09,000
And because SAPs can be faked,

508
00:19:09,000 --> 00:19:11,000
if you ever send or receive not-saps,

509
00:19:11,000 --> 00:19:13,000
you're the most real thing there is.

510
00:19:13,000 --> 00:19:15,000
Because not-saps can't be faked.

511
00:19:15,000 --> 00:19:19,000
So I have all these metrics to rank or the profiles by realness.

512
00:19:19,000 --> 00:19:21,000
And that's what I mean by low-hanging fruits.

513
00:19:21,000 --> 00:19:23,000
We have all this stuff in Noster.

514
00:19:23,000 --> 00:19:25,000
Every client can do that.

515
00:19:25,000 --> 00:19:27,000
Very few clients do those kind of things.

516
00:19:27,000 --> 00:19:29,000
Just show a little indication where it's like,

517
00:19:29,000 --> 00:19:32,000
this user has never sent a SAP.

518
00:19:33,000 --> 00:19:35,000
It's interesting, too, it's like.

519
00:19:35,000 --> 00:19:38,000
Well, it's interesting, like,

520
00:19:39,000 --> 00:19:42,000
yeah, and like, that is kind of one of the things,

521
00:19:42,000 --> 00:19:44,000
there's two things there, it's like,

522
00:19:44,000 --> 00:19:46,000
one of the things I've been thinking about, like, local first,

523
00:19:46,000 --> 00:19:49,000
is that you can start, like,

524
00:19:49,000 --> 00:19:53,000
it allows you to start experimenting with more algorithms.

525
00:19:53,000 --> 00:19:56,000
Like, for example, that is-

526
00:19:56,000 --> 00:19:57,000
Because it's super fast.

527
00:19:57,000 --> 00:19:59,000
Because it's a local database.

528
00:19:59,000 --> 00:20:01,000
You're spending nothing but your own compute.

529
00:20:02,000 --> 00:20:04,000
I mean, asking anyone for a compute.

530
00:20:04,000 --> 00:20:07,000
That's why I think that's why we'll build NosterDB.

531
00:20:07,000 --> 00:20:08,000
Yeah.

532
00:20:08,000 --> 00:20:10,000
That's what I'm like-

533
00:20:10,000 --> 00:20:12,000
But I think a local relay is good enough.

534
00:20:12,000 --> 00:20:14,000
Like, it's fast enough.

535
00:20:14,000 --> 00:20:15,000
They're the same thing.

536
00:20:15,000 --> 00:20:17,000
It's a different API to talk to the same day.

537
00:20:17,000 --> 00:20:18,000
It's a data set.

538
00:20:18,000 --> 00:20:19,000
That's the issue.

539
00:20:19,000 --> 00:20:21,000
Because if I want to use NosterDB,

540
00:20:21,000 --> 00:20:23,000
I have to rewrite my app.

541
00:20:23,000 --> 00:20:24,000
If I want to use a local relay,

542
00:20:24,000 --> 00:20:26,000
I don't have to do anything.

543
00:20:26,000 --> 00:20:27,000
Yeah, yeah.

544
00:20:27,000 --> 00:20:29,000
I don't know what I'm trying to get it.

545
00:20:29,000 --> 00:20:30,000
Yeah.

546
00:20:30,000 --> 00:20:32,000
It's different from, like, proprietary versus, like, open,

547
00:20:32,000 --> 00:20:33,000
open way of talking to things.

548
00:20:33,000 --> 00:20:34,000
Pretty much, yeah.

549
00:20:34,000 --> 00:20:37,000
But the interesting thing is,

550
00:20:37,000 --> 00:20:39,000
like, having things, like, local first,

551
00:20:39,000 --> 00:20:41,000
allows you to experiment with more algorithms.

552
00:20:41,000 --> 00:20:43,000
But, and I think-

553
00:20:43,000 --> 00:20:44,000
I think the answer is, like,

554
00:20:44,000 --> 00:20:46,000
kind of discovering, maybe.

555
00:20:46,000 --> 00:20:49,000
But what I've found with a few of the things I've messed with

556
00:20:49,000 --> 00:20:53,000
is local first,

557
00:20:53,000 --> 00:20:56,000
in the absence of any type of algorithm,

558
00:20:57,000 --> 00:21:00,000
is actually some kind of algorithm.

559
00:21:00,000 --> 00:21:02,000
So, for example, like, I pile-

560
00:21:02,000 --> 00:21:03,000
Yeah.

561
00:21:03,000 --> 00:21:06,000
I have 500,000 notes sitting on my laptop.

562
00:21:06,000 --> 00:21:07,000
Yeah.

563
00:21:07,000 --> 00:21:09,000
If I search your username, like, GG.

564
00:21:09,000 --> 00:21:10,000
Yeah.

565
00:21:10,000 --> 00:21:11,000
It returns your user.

566
00:21:11,000 --> 00:21:12,000
Yeah.

567
00:21:12,000 --> 00:21:13,000
There's no algorithm on a local relay.

568
00:21:13,000 --> 00:21:15,000
And now, if you put a local,

569
00:21:15,000 --> 00:21:17,000
if you run C3 on your phone,

570
00:21:17,000 --> 00:21:19,000
and it just use NosterApps,

571
00:21:19,000 --> 00:21:21,000
they hit C3 in your local relay on your phone,

572
00:21:21,000 --> 00:21:22,000
if you use another app,

573
00:21:22,000 --> 00:21:24,000
it's already pre-populated with data

574
00:21:24,000 --> 00:21:25,000
that's relevant to you.

575
00:21:25,000 --> 00:21:26,000
That's relevant to you.

576
00:21:26,000 --> 00:21:27,000
In other words, kind of an algorithm.

577
00:21:27,000 --> 00:21:28,000
Yeah.

578
00:21:28,000 --> 00:21:29,000
And the interesting thing is that,

579
00:21:29,000 --> 00:21:31,000
it's like, think about like your browser history.

580
00:21:31,000 --> 00:21:34,000
Like, if you want to know what is, like,

581
00:21:34,000 --> 00:21:37,000
the real Amazon.com.

582
00:21:37,000 --> 00:21:39,000
You can run an algorithm over, like,

583
00:21:39,000 --> 00:21:42,000
either curated or the global date of the internet.

584
00:21:42,000 --> 00:21:45,000
But if you search your local browser history,

585
00:21:45,000 --> 00:21:48,000
it will tell you what Amazon.com is to know.

586
00:21:48,000 --> 00:21:50,000
Basically, not from, like, any sort of algorithm,

587
00:21:50,000 --> 00:21:54,000
but basically from your activity,

588
00:21:54,000 --> 00:21:56,000
you're in a way that's like your preferences,

589
00:21:56,000 --> 00:21:59,000
build a data set that is then representing

590
00:21:59,000 --> 00:22:00,000
of what your preferences are.

591
00:22:00,000 --> 00:22:02,000
Like, it's a powerful thing what's currently happening.

592
00:22:02,000 --> 00:22:04,000
It's like, also with the knowDNS idea,

593
00:22:04,000 --> 00:22:06,000
replacing the NS and so on.

594
00:22:06,000 --> 00:22:08,000
Once you have the local companies,

595
00:22:08,000 --> 00:22:11,000
you don't have to query your web of trust

596
00:22:11,000 --> 00:22:12,000
or a server or whatever.

597
00:22:12,000 --> 00:22:15,000
Like, you don't have to query the outside world all the time.

598
00:22:15,000 --> 00:22:16,000
That's the interesting thing is,

599
00:22:16,000 --> 00:22:17,000
like, once you have your local,

600
00:22:17,000 --> 00:22:18,000
in other words, like,

601
00:22:18,000 --> 00:22:19,000
for lack of a word,

602
00:22:19,000 --> 00:22:20,000
it's called, like, local preferences.

603
00:22:20,000 --> 00:22:23,000
Once you build up your local preferences,

604
00:22:23,000 --> 00:22:28,000
then you can almost, like,

605
00:22:28,000 --> 00:22:29,000
you can do the naive approach,

606
00:22:29,000 --> 00:22:31,000
which is just throw away the algorithm.

607
00:22:31,000 --> 00:22:32,000
Just don't have an algorithm.

608
00:22:32,000 --> 00:22:34,000
It's probably good enough.

609
00:22:34,000 --> 00:22:35,000
It's probably good enough.

610
00:22:35,000 --> 00:22:36,000
It's probably good enough.

611
00:22:36,000 --> 00:22:38,000
And, like, that's the interesting thing with that,

612
00:22:38,000 --> 00:22:39,000
is, like, that's what I found.

613
00:22:39,000 --> 00:22:40,000
It's, like, I have.

614
00:22:40,000 --> 00:22:41,000
You're not certain.

615
00:22:41,000 --> 00:22:42,000
I will get better over time,

616
00:22:42,000 --> 00:22:43,000
and smart over time,

617
00:22:43,000 --> 00:22:46,000
just by having a local cache and the local relay.

618
00:22:46,000 --> 00:22:47,000
Yeah.

619
00:22:47,000 --> 00:22:48,000
And it's strange.

620
00:22:48,000 --> 00:22:49,000
Like, I don't know how well it works.

621
00:22:49,000 --> 00:22:50,000
Most of the time you're not offline, right?

622
00:22:50,000 --> 00:22:51,000
That's the thing.

623
00:22:51,000 --> 00:22:52,000
Most of the time you're not offline.

624
00:22:53,000 --> 00:22:55,000
And so, when I want to have is just, like,

625
00:22:55,000 --> 00:22:56,000
all the apps that I use,

626
00:22:56,000 --> 00:22:58,000
if I'm on a flight,

627
00:22:58,000 --> 00:22:59,000
and let's be real, like,

628
00:22:59,000 --> 00:23:01,000
playing Wi-Fi still sucks ass.

629
00:23:01,000 --> 00:23:03,000
So, if I'm on a flight,

630
00:23:03,000 --> 00:23:04,000
I'm going to be in flight mode.

631
00:23:04,000 --> 00:23:06,000
And I just still want to use all this stuff.

632
00:23:06,000 --> 00:23:08,000
I want to read through my timeline.

633
00:23:08,000 --> 00:23:09,000
I want to read, like,

634
00:23:09,000 --> 00:23:10,000
I want to like things,

635
00:23:10,000 --> 00:23:11,000
I want to sap things, and so on.

636
00:23:11,000 --> 00:23:13,000
And then, back online,

637
00:23:13,000 --> 00:23:15,000
it just broadcasts all the events

638
00:23:15,000 --> 00:23:17,000
that were local only for me.

639
00:23:17,000 --> 00:23:18,000
But, like, you know?

640
00:23:18,000 --> 00:23:19,000
The funny thing is, like,

641
00:23:19,000 --> 00:23:20,000
it's, like, not even, like,

642
00:23:20,000 --> 00:23:21,000
offline, online,

643
00:23:21,000 --> 00:23:22,000
because this is what I was talking to.

644
00:23:22,000 --> 00:23:23,000
It's something that, uh,

645
00:23:23,000 --> 00:23:24,000
exactly, it's a mesh idea.

646
00:23:24,000 --> 00:23:25,000
I forget, yeah.

647
00:23:25,000 --> 00:23:26,000
But I just forget who I was, like,

648
00:23:26,000 --> 00:23:27,000
talking to.

649
00:23:27,000 --> 00:23:28,000
It's a key to, like,

650
00:23:28,000 --> 00:23:30,000
I forget who I was talking to earlier this week,

651
00:23:30,000 --> 00:23:31,000
but I was like,

652
00:23:31,000 --> 00:23:33,000
there's too many, not too many people.

653
00:23:33,000 --> 00:23:35,000
There's a trap, if you think about offline,

654
00:23:35,000 --> 00:23:36,000
in that,

655
00:23:36,000 --> 00:23:38,000
you can, if you're-

656
00:23:38,000 --> 00:23:40,000
Because usually you're relying on the server.

657
00:23:40,000 --> 00:23:41,000
Right.

658
00:23:41,000 --> 00:23:42,000
And even if you throw away that idea,

659
00:23:42,000 --> 00:23:43,000
and you go, like,

660
00:23:43,000 --> 00:23:44,000
this is, like,

661
00:23:44,000 --> 00:23:45,000
kind of, go back to, like,

662
00:23:45,000 --> 00:23:46,000
the local mesh guys,

663
00:23:46,000 --> 00:23:47,000
is they might have fallen into this trap,

664
00:23:47,000 --> 00:23:48,000
which is,

665
00:23:48,000 --> 00:23:51,000
you're trying to solve offline.

666
00:23:51,000 --> 00:23:53,000
You're trying to make offline

667
00:23:53,000 --> 00:23:54,000
of the quality of offline.

668
00:23:54,000 --> 00:23:55,000
Yeah.

669
00:23:55,000 --> 00:23:56,000
Never-

670
00:23:56,000 --> 00:23:57,000
Never use a server ever,

671
00:23:57,000 --> 00:23:58,000
basically, in some sense.

672
00:23:58,000 --> 00:23:59,000
Yeah.

673
00:23:59,000 --> 00:24:00,000
Unless it's on your land, you know?

674
00:24:00,000 --> 00:24:01,000
Yeah.

675
00:24:01,000 --> 00:24:02,000
Like, like, like,

676
00:24:02,000 --> 00:24:03,000
do you see this, for example,

677
00:24:03,000 --> 00:24:04,000
like, people who, like,

678
00:24:04,000 --> 00:24:05,000
like, Google Docs is a great example.

679
00:24:05,000 --> 00:24:06,000
Like, Google Docs,

680
00:24:06,000 --> 00:24:07,000
I mean, it's built to be online

681
00:24:07,000 --> 00:24:08,000
because everything on Google is online.

682
00:24:08,000 --> 00:24:09,000
Oh, yeah.

683
00:24:09,000 --> 00:24:10,000
But the offline mood,

684
00:24:10,000 --> 00:24:11,000
a mode of Google Docs,

685
00:24:11,000 --> 00:24:13,000
is purely there to bridge

686
00:24:13,000 --> 00:24:15,000
the fact that offline exists.

687
00:24:15,000 --> 00:24:16,000
Yeah.

688
00:24:16,000 --> 00:24:17,000
If offline didn't exist.

689
00:24:17,000 --> 00:24:18,000
Google Docs would not have

690
00:24:18,000 --> 00:24:19,000
any offline feature.

691
00:24:19,000 --> 00:24:20,000
Yeah.

692
00:24:20,000 --> 00:24:21,000
Because it's not designed to be offline.

693
00:24:21,000 --> 00:24:22,000
Yeah.

694
00:24:22,000 --> 00:24:23,000
And so, if you build in that sense,

695
00:24:23,000 --> 00:24:24,000
we're, like,

696
00:24:24,000 --> 00:24:25,000
you think about offline,

697
00:24:25,000 --> 00:24:26,000
purely as just, like,

698
00:24:26,000 --> 00:24:28,000
as a thing to be solved

699
00:24:28,000 --> 00:24:29,000
to get back online.

700
00:24:29,000 --> 00:24:30,000
Yeah.

701
00:24:30,000 --> 00:24:32,000
You're missing a huge part

702
00:24:32,000 --> 00:24:33,000
of, like, what's there?

703
00:24:33,000 --> 00:24:34,000
Yeah.

704
00:24:34,000 --> 00:24:35,000
But if you embrace, like,

705
00:24:35,000 --> 00:24:36,000
it's just offline.

706
00:24:36,000 --> 00:24:37,000
And here's the thing about

707
00:24:37,000 --> 00:24:39,000
what's not your way of doing things.

708
00:24:39,000 --> 00:24:40,000
Service?

709
00:24:40,000 --> 00:24:41,000
Aren't bad.

710
00:24:41,000 --> 00:24:42,000
Service aren't evil.

711
00:24:42,000 --> 00:24:44,000
Getting rock-pulled is bad.

712
00:24:44,000 --> 00:24:45,000
Yeah.

713
00:24:45,000 --> 00:24:47,000
And so, if you can use servers

714
00:24:47,000 --> 00:24:48,000
without getting rock-pulled,

715
00:24:48,000 --> 00:24:49,000
use service.

716
00:24:49,000 --> 00:24:51,000
That was, that was via Jeff's

717
00:24:51,000 --> 00:24:52,000
insight.

718
00:24:52,000 --> 00:24:53,000
Yeah.

719
00:24:53,000 --> 00:24:54,000
That was via Jeff's insight,

720
00:24:54,000 --> 00:24:55,000
where it's like,

721
00:24:55,000 --> 00:24:56,000
purely peer-to-peer,

722
00:24:56,000 --> 00:24:57,000
or purely offline or whatever,

723
00:24:57,000 --> 00:24:58,000
doesn't make any sense.

724
00:24:58,000 --> 00:24:59,000
Doesn't work.

725
00:24:59,000 --> 00:25:00,000
Can never work, can never scale.

726
00:25:00,000 --> 00:25:01,000
So, how can you use servers

727
00:25:01,000 --> 00:25:02,000
without getting rock-pulled?

728
00:25:02,000 --> 00:25:03,000
And that's where the signed data

729
00:25:03,000 --> 00:25:04,000
and everything else comes in,

730
00:25:04,000 --> 00:25:05,000
and so on and so forth.

731
00:25:05,000 --> 00:25:06,000
And that's where, you know,

732
00:25:06,000 --> 00:25:07,000
done really smart clients,

733
00:25:07,000 --> 00:25:08,000
and so on.

734
00:25:08,000 --> 00:25:09,000
And that's the right approach.

735
00:25:09,000 --> 00:25:10,000
And what we,

736
00:25:10,000 --> 00:25:11,000
one of the low-hanging fruits

737
00:25:11,000 --> 00:25:12,000
of Nostrader,

738
00:25:12,000 --> 00:25:13,000
we didn't make use of yet,

739
00:25:13,000 --> 00:25:14,000
is that it gives you

740
00:25:14,000 --> 00:25:15,000
that flying mold.

741
00:25:15,000 --> 00:25:16,000
You know what's funny about that?

742
00:25:16,000 --> 00:25:17,000
You know what's funny about that?

743
00:25:17,000 --> 00:25:18,000
It's like back to the offline thing,

744
00:25:18,000 --> 00:25:19,000
like the local first guys,

745
00:25:19,000 --> 00:25:21,000
is like, in some sense,

746
00:25:21,000 --> 00:25:22,000
to generalize, like,

747
00:25:22,000 --> 00:25:23,000
that's what they're trying to solve.

748
00:25:23,000 --> 00:25:24,000
They're trying to take

749
00:25:24,000 --> 00:25:25,000
the best parts of online,

750
00:25:25,000 --> 00:25:26,000
and the best parts of offline,

751
00:25:26,000 --> 00:25:27,000
and merge them into

752
00:25:27,000 --> 00:25:28,000
this thing they call

753
00:25:28,000 --> 00:25:29,000
mesh network and peer-to-peer.

754
00:25:29,000 --> 00:25:30,000
They're trying to have their

755
00:25:30,000 --> 00:25:31,000
cake and eat it too.

756
00:25:31,000 --> 00:25:33,000
When there is two distinct things,

757
00:25:33,000 --> 00:25:34,000
there is offline,

758
00:25:34,000 --> 00:25:35,000
and there's online.

759
00:25:35,000 --> 00:25:36,000
There is servers,

760
00:25:36,000 --> 00:25:37,000
and there's local.

761
00:25:37,000 --> 00:25:38,000
They're trying to get both,

762
00:25:38,000 --> 00:25:39,000
in other words,

763
00:25:39,000 --> 00:25:40,000
peer-to-peer.

764
00:25:40,000 --> 00:25:41,000
They're trying to, like,

765
00:25:41,000 --> 00:25:42,000
everything is a server,

766
00:25:42,000 --> 00:25:43,000
and everything is local.

767
00:25:44,000 --> 00:25:45,000
There's many reasons it doesn't work,

768
00:25:45,000 --> 00:25:46,000
but like,

769
00:25:46,000 --> 00:25:48,000
it's...

770
00:25:48,000 --> 00:25:49,000
The other paradigm,

771
00:25:49,000 --> 00:25:50,000
like client server,

772
00:25:50,000 --> 00:25:52,000
like online offline.

773
00:25:53,000 --> 00:25:54,000
Functions,

774
00:25:54,000 --> 00:25:57,000
and it doesn't, like...

775
00:25:57,000 --> 00:25:58,000
To translate it to

776
00:25:58,000 --> 00:25:59,000
Nosterling always,

777
00:25:59,000 --> 00:26:00,000
like, you always need a relay.

778
00:26:00,000 --> 00:26:01,000
You always need a relay,

779
00:26:01,000 --> 00:26:02,000
and the relay might be,

780
00:26:02,000 --> 00:26:04,000
and the relay is just a server,

781
00:26:04,000 --> 00:26:06,000
and the relay might be on device.

782
00:26:06,000 --> 00:26:07,000
Yeah.

783
00:26:07,000 --> 00:26:08,000
But the online...

784
00:26:08,000 --> 00:26:09,000
There's a difference

785
00:26:09,000 --> 00:26:12,000
between a relay

786
00:26:12,000 --> 00:26:13,000
is online,

787
00:26:13,000 --> 00:26:14,000
in the words,

788
00:26:14,000 --> 00:26:15,000
bridging you

789
00:26:15,000 --> 00:26:16,000
to something bigger,

790
00:26:16,000 --> 00:26:17,000
and something that's running...

791
00:26:17,000 --> 00:26:18,000
I mean, what's the internet, right?

792
00:26:18,000 --> 00:26:19,000
The internet is just a couple of

793
00:26:19,000 --> 00:26:20,000
lands that are bridged.

794
00:26:20,000 --> 00:26:21,000
Yeah, right.

795
00:26:21,000 --> 00:26:22,000
So same idea, right?

796
00:26:22,000 --> 00:26:24,000
So it depends on...

797
00:26:24,000 --> 00:26:26,000
Like, once you bridge all the lands together,

798
00:26:26,000 --> 00:26:27,000
you have the internet.

799
00:26:27,000 --> 00:26:29,000
Same with the relay stuff, right?

800
00:26:29,000 --> 00:26:30,000
Like, why not?

801
00:26:30,000 --> 00:26:32,000
And it comes back to

802
00:26:32,000 --> 00:26:33,000
information,

803
00:26:33,000 --> 00:26:34,000
it's easy to spread,

804
00:26:34,000 --> 00:26:35,000
hard to stifle.

805
00:26:35,000 --> 00:26:36,000
You only need one connection,

806
00:26:36,000 --> 00:26:37,000
and it might be a sneaker net,

807
00:26:37,000 --> 00:26:38,000
and then you have

808
00:26:38,000 --> 00:26:39,000
the internet again.

809
00:26:39,000 --> 00:26:41,000
You only need one link

810
00:26:41,000 --> 00:26:43,000
between two networks,

811
00:26:43,000 --> 00:26:44,000
and then it's like,

812
00:26:44,000 --> 00:26:46,000
it bridges to the other network.

813
00:26:46,000 --> 00:26:47,000
All right.

814
00:26:47,000 --> 00:26:50,000
But there are some things different in that.

815
00:26:50,000 --> 00:26:51,000
No, it's right,

816
00:26:51,000 --> 00:26:52,000
but there's something different in that,

817
00:26:52,000 --> 00:26:54,000
like, the server model,

818
00:26:54,000 --> 00:26:55,000
like you said,

819
00:26:55,000 --> 00:26:56,000
like,

820
00:26:56,000 --> 00:26:57,000
servers are not a bad thing.

821
00:26:57,000 --> 00:26:58,000
Like, a server is not

822
00:26:58,000 --> 00:26:59,000
just a bridge to another user.

823
00:26:59,000 --> 00:27:03,000
It's a unknown bridge to all the users.

824
00:27:03,000 --> 00:27:04,000
In some...

825
00:27:04,000 --> 00:27:05,000
In other words,

826
00:27:05,000 --> 00:27:06,000
a publish.

827
00:27:06,000 --> 00:27:07,000
A publish is not...

828
00:27:07,000 --> 00:27:08,000
I will send it to everyone

829
00:27:08,000 --> 00:27:09,000
on my mailing list.

830
00:27:09,000 --> 00:27:10,000
It is, I will put it out

831
00:27:10,000 --> 00:27:12,000
so that anyone can find it.

832
00:27:12,000 --> 00:27:14,000
And there's kind of a new answer,

833
00:27:14,000 --> 00:27:18,000
because to look at it from a peer-to-peer perspective,

834
00:27:18,000 --> 00:27:21,000
you cannot publish in a peer-to-peer network,

835
00:27:21,000 --> 00:27:23,000
because you don't know all the peers,

836
00:27:23,000 --> 00:27:24,000
you don't know the rest of everybody.

837
00:27:24,000 --> 00:27:25,000
Yeah.

838
00:27:25,000 --> 00:27:26,000
So you need something...

839
00:27:26,000 --> 00:27:27,000
You can only...

840
00:27:27,000 --> 00:27:28,000
You can only gossip.

841
00:27:28,000 --> 00:27:29,000
You can only gossip.

842
00:27:29,000 --> 00:27:30,000
You can broadcast to everyone.

843
00:27:30,000 --> 00:27:31,000
Like, you couldn't...

844
00:27:31,000 --> 00:27:33,000
You couldn't send an email to everyone,

845
00:27:33,000 --> 00:27:36,000
because you don't know everyone.

846
00:27:37,000 --> 00:27:39,000
So, I guess, like, the emailing lists,

847
00:27:39,000 --> 00:27:40,000
like the emailing lists and whatnot.

848
00:27:40,000 --> 00:27:41,000
Where it's like...

849
00:27:41,000 --> 00:27:42,000
There's this center point that's...

850
00:27:42,000 --> 00:27:43,000
Like, almost like a community point

851
00:27:43,000 --> 00:27:45,000
a junction in some sense.

852
00:27:45,000 --> 00:27:46,000
Yeah.

853
00:27:46,000 --> 00:27:47,000
Where it's like...

854
00:27:47,000 --> 00:27:48,000
And that's not...

855
00:27:48,000 --> 00:27:49,000
And that's not a...

856
00:27:49,000 --> 00:27:50,000
There's something about that action

857
00:27:50,000 --> 00:27:51,000
that's not...

858
00:27:51,000 --> 00:27:52,000
Peer-to-peer.

859
00:27:52,000 --> 00:27:53,000
That's not...

860
00:27:53,000 --> 00:27:55,000
Local to local.

861
00:27:55,000 --> 00:27:56,000
In some sense.

862
00:27:56,000 --> 00:27:58,000
Maybe it's, like, local to, like, a hot-local hub

863
00:27:58,000 --> 00:27:59,000
or something.

864
00:27:59,000 --> 00:28:00,000
I don't know.

865
00:28:00,000 --> 00:28:02,000
The terminology starts to break down.

866
00:28:02,000 --> 00:28:03,000
But, like,

867
00:28:03,000 --> 00:28:04,000
it's a different action

868
00:28:04,000 --> 00:28:05,000
than just, like,

869
00:28:05,000 --> 00:28:06,000
send it to everyone I know.

870
00:28:06,000 --> 00:28:07,000
It's like, I will...

871
00:28:07,000 --> 00:28:08,000
I think what we...

872
00:28:08,000 --> 00:28:10,000
And what we ran into with Noster DMs and so on,

873
00:28:10,000 --> 00:28:12,000
it's like, you wanna differentiate.

874
00:28:12,000 --> 00:28:13,000
Noster was built for broadcasting.

875
00:28:13,000 --> 00:28:14,000
Yeah.

876
00:28:14,000 --> 00:28:15,000
Noster was built for public broadcasting.

877
00:28:15,000 --> 00:28:17,000
Like, literally, a social media network.

878
00:28:17,000 --> 00:28:18,000
Like, we want...

879
00:28:18,000 --> 00:28:20,000
We want, like, VHF build a Twitter replacement, basically.

880
00:28:20,000 --> 00:28:21,000
That was the idea.

881
00:28:21,000 --> 00:28:22,000
Yeah.

882
00:28:22,000 --> 00:28:24,000
And something that works

883
00:28:24,000 --> 00:28:25,000
and hopefully scales and all those kind of things.

884
00:28:25,000 --> 00:28:26,000
It's a good thing...

885
00:28:26,000 --> 00:28:27,000
It's a good thing he built it poorly,

886
00:28:27,000 --> 00:28:29,000
because otherwise, I would not be working on Noster.

887
00:28:29,000 --> 00:28:30,000
Oh, 100%.

888
00:28:30,000 --> 00:28:31,000
It's like...

889
00:28:31,000 --> 00:28:32,000
As I joined, I joined...

890
00:28:32,000 --> 00:28:33,000
I remember that app,

891
00:28:33,000 --> 00:28:34,000
and I was like,

892
00:28:34,000 --> 00:28:35,000
this is terrible.

893
00:28:35,000 --> 00:28:36,000
And I looked at the cars like,

894
00:28:36,000 --> 00:28:37,000
I could do better than this.

895
00:28:37,000 --> 00:28:38,000
That's the secret.

896
00:28:38,000 --> 00:28:40,000
Like, he nerds night,

897
00:28:40,000 --> 00:28:42,000
a bunch of communities.

898
00:28:42,000 --> 00:28:43,000
You know, that's the secret.

899
00:28:43,000 --> 00:28:44,000
Just...

900
00:28:44,000 --> 00:28:45,000
Just publish it and make it really bad.

901
00:28:45,000 --> 00:28:46,000
Yeah.

902
00:28:46,000 --> 00:28:47,000
But the idea out,

903
00:28:47,000 --> 00:28:48,000
but the first version, just make it terrible.

904
00:28:48,000 --> 00:28:49,000
So that people are like,

905
00:28:49,000 --> 00:28:50,000
you come along,

906
00:28:50,000 --> 00:28:51,000
it's like, I can build this in like,

907
00:28:51,000 --> 00:28:52,000
10x better way.

908
00:28:52,000 --> 00:28:53,000
Yeah.

909
00:28:53,000 --> 00:28:54,000
No, it's...

910
00:28:54,000 --> 00:28:55,000
It's a part of open source

911
00:28:55,000 --> 00:28:56,000
that a lot of people don't get it.

912
00:28:56,000 --> 00:28:57,000
It's like...

913
00:28:57,000 --> 00:28:58,000
Half...

914
00:28:58,000 --> 00:28:59,000
Don't be afraid to publish.

915
00:28:59,000 --> 00:29:00,000
Half of open sources,

916
00:29:00,000 --> 00:29:01,000
like, describing ideas.

917
00:29:01,000 --> 00:29:02,000
Yeah.

918
00:29:02,000 --> 00:29:03,000
The other half of source,

919
00:29:03,000 --> 00:29:04,000
like, nerds night.

920
00:29:04,000 --> 00:29:05,000
Yeah.

921
00:29:05,000 --> 00:29:06,000
And just half-ass it,

922
00:29:06,000 --> 00:29:07,000
push it out,

923
00:29:07,000 --> 00:29:08,000
like, make a nice...

924
00:29:08,000 --> 00:29:09,000
I don't know, like...

925
00:29:09,000 --> 00:29:10,000
I mean, we are still...

926
00:29:10,000 --> 00:29:11,000
We are still better than that as well.

927
00:29:11,000 --> 00:29:12,000
We just talked about it today

928
00:29:12,000 --> 00:29:13,000
in the morning.

929
00:29:13,000 --> 00:29:14,000
We will have to get better

930
00:29:14,000 --> 00:29:15,000
at publishing videos of this stuff,

931
00:29:15,000 --> 00:29:16,000
we both.

932
00:29:16,000 --> 00:29:17,000
Like, there's so much amazing stuff

933
00:29:17,000 --> 00:29:19,000
that's being created,

934
00:29:19,000 --> 00:29:20,000
and no one knows about it.

935
00:29:20,000 --> 00:29:21,000
I'm gonna...

936
00:29:21,000 --> 00:29:22,000
I'm gonna...

937
00:29:22,000 --> 00:29:23,000
I'm gonna make a video about

938
00:29:23,000 --> 00:29:24,000
how to get ants.

939
00:29:24,000 --> 00:29:25,000
I'm gonna...

940
00:29:25,000 --> 00:29:26,000
I'm gonna make that...

941
00:29:26,000 --> 00:29:27,000
maybe tonight,

942
00:29:27,000 --> 00:29:28,000
or tomorrow,

943
00:29:28,000 --> 00:29:29,000
somewhere...

944
00:29:29,000 --> 00:29:30,000
We've been walking in circles for a while.

945
00:29:30,000 --> 00:29:31,000
Maybe let's...

946
00:29:31,000 --> 00:29:32,000
Let's enter the noisy world again.

947
00:29:32,000 --> 00:29:33,000
There's a conversation.

948
00:29:33,000 --> 00:29:34,000
It's gonna go in circles.

949
00:29:34,000 --> 00:29:35,000
That's how it works.

950
00:29:35,000 --> 00:29:36,000
That's how it works.

951
00:29:36,000 --> 00:29:37,000
But the...

952
00:29:37,000 --> 00:29:38,000
I think the...

953
00:29:38,000 --> 00:29:39,000
What I wanted to say is,

954
00:29:39,000 --> 00:29:41,000
like, broadcasting is different

955
00:29:41,000 --> 00:29:42,000
than sending a DM in some sense.

956
00:29:42,000 --> 00:29:43,000
It's like...

957
00:29:43,000 --> 00:29:44,000
And we had this issue

958
00:29:44,000 --> 00:29:45,000
of the metadata leaks

959
00:29:45,000 --> 00:29:46,000
with the primitive ways

960
00:29:46,000 --> 00:29:47,000
we did the ants, right?

961
00:29:47,000 --> 00:29:48,000
It was like...

962
00:29:48,000 --> 00:29:49,000
It's very easy to figure out.

963
00:29:49,000 --> 00:29:50,000
It's like, who's talking to whom?

964
00:29:50,000 --> 00:29:51,000
So we had all this, you know,

965
00:29:51,000 --> 00:29:53,000
DM metadata leakage and so on.

966
00:29:53,000 --> 00:29:54,000
But it's...

967
00:29:54,000 --> 00:29:56,000
It relates to what we said earlier

968
00:29:56,000 --> 00:29:57,000
where it's like...

969
00:29:57,000 --> 00:29:58,000
You don't...

970
00:29:58,000 --> 00:29:59,000
You want to have the data

971
00:29:59,000 --> 00:30:00,000
kind of everywhere.

972
00:30:00,000 --> 00:30:01,000
And...

973
00:30:01,000 --> 00:30:03,000
Like, private data isn't crypto data.

974
00:30:03,000 --> 00:30:05,000
It's not data that's just on your computer.

975
00:30:05,000 --> 00:30:06,000
It's actually not private data.

976
00:30:06,000 --> 00:30:08,000
You go through TSA once

977
00:30:08,000 --> 00:30:09,000
and it's not your data anymore.

978
00:30:09,000 --> 00:30:10,000
You know?

979
00:30:10,000 --> 00:30:11,000
Like, you have a Russian hacker on your phone.

980
00:30:11,000 --> 00:30:12,000
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

981
00:30:12,000 --> 00:30:13,000
It's not your data anymore.

982
00:30:13,000 --> 00:30:14,000
Private data isn't crypto data, period.

983
00:30:14,000 --> 00:30:15,000
It doesn't matter where the data lives.

984
00:30:15,000 --> 00:30:16,000
And the...

985
00:30:16,000 --> 00:30:18,000
The awesome thing about Noster is...

986
00:30:18,000 --> 00:30:20,000
The whole architecture is like where...

987
00:30:20,000 --> 00:30:21,000
It...

988
00:30:21,000 --> 00:30:23,000
It shouldn't matter where the data comes from.

989
00:30:23,000 --> 00:30:25,000
Ah, but it forced a hand in some sense.

990
00:30:25,000 --> 00:30:26,000
Like, it was like...

991
00:30:26,000 --> 00:30:27,000
The assumption back...

992
00:30:27,000 --> 00:30:28,000
The assumption was...

993
00:30:28,000 --> 00:30:29,000
Oh, it's on my computer.

994
00:30:29,000 --> 00:30:30,000
It's private data.

995
00:30:30,000 --> 00:30:31,000
But like, the Noster events...

996
00:30:31,000 --> 00:30:32,000
They're built to leak.

997
00:30:32,000 --> 00:30:33,000
So it's like...

998
00:30:33,000 --> 00:30:34,000
Exactly.

999
00:30:34,000 --> 00:30:35,000
It's on my computer.

1000
00:30:35,000 --> 00:30:36,000
It's not private data.

1001
00:30:36,000 --> 00:30:37,000
It should get...

1002
00:30:37,000 --> 00:30:38,000
Yeah.

1003
00:30:38,000 --> 00:30:39,000
Exactly.

1004
00:30:39,000 --> 00:30:40,000
Yeah.

1005
00:30:40,000 --> 00:30:41,000
So, like, if you want it private...

1006
00:30:41,000 --> 00:30:42,000
And that was the thing with Noster.

1007
00:30:42,000 --> 00:30:43,000
It was like...

1008
00:30:43,000 --> 00:30:44,000
If you want it private,

1009
00:30:44,000 --> 00:30:45,000
it wasn't a matter of like putting off education in front of it.

1010
00:30:45,000 --> 00:30:47,000
It wasn't a matter of like...

1011
00:30:47,000 --> 00:30:48,000
Of like gating it.

1012
00:30:48,000 --> 00:30:49,000
It wasn't a matter of like making it local.

1013
00:30:49,000 --> 00:30:50,000
It was like...

1014
00:30:50,000 --> 00:30:51,000
No, it has to be encrypted.

1015
00:30:51,000 --> 00:30:52,000
Absolutely.

1016
00:30:52,000 --> 00:30:53,000
Because it's built to get out.

1017
00:30:53,000 --> 00:30:54,000
It's the only...

1018
00:30:54,000 --> 00:30:55,000
And that's why I love Noster so much.

1019
00:30:55,000 --> 00:30:56,000
I literally love it.

1020
00:30:59,000 --> 00:31:02,000
Information has a certain nature and characteristic.

1021
00:31:02,000 --> 00:31:04,000
And it's easy to spread hard to stifle and so on.

1022
00:31:04,000 --> 00:31:05,000
All those kind of things.

1023
00:31:05,000 --> 00:31:06,000
And...

1024
00:31:06,000 --> 00:31:09,000
And you have to go with the flow of information.

1025
00:31:09,000 --> 00:31:10,000
Trying to...

1026
00:31:10,000 --> 00:31:11,000
Trying...

1027
00:31:11,000 --> 00:31:13,000
It's the same with deletion, for example.

1028
00:31:13,000 --> 00:31:14,000
Deletion...

1029
00:31:14,000 --> 00:31:15,000
Deleting data is a lie.

1030
00:31:15,000 --> 00:31:16,000
You cannot prove deletion.

1031
00:31:16,000 --> 00:31:17,000
You know?

1032
00:31:17,000 --> 00:31:18,000
It's like...

1033
00:31:18,000 --> 00:31:19,000
And if you try, you're going to have to strise in the fact, right?

1034
00:31:19,000 --> 00:31:20,000
It's like...

1035
00:31:20,000 --> 00:31:21,000
You know what I mean?

1036
00:31:21,000 --> 00:31:22,000
And Noster really leads it to all that.

1037
00:31:22,000 --> 00:31:24,000
But the funny thing is it also leads it to the other part of information.

1038
00:31:24,000 --> 00:31:25,000
Which is...

1039
00:31:25,000 --> 00:31:27,000
It will delete itself in some way.

1040
00:31:27,000 --> 00:31:29,000
Oh, you have BitRot and all those kind of things.

1041
00:31:29,000 --> 00:31:30,000
That's why...

1042
00:31:30,000 --> 00:31:32,000
One of the low-hanging fruits of Noster, and I'm just...

1043
00:31:32,000 --> 00:31:33,000
You know, I'm preparing my talk for tomorrow.

1044
00:31:33,000 --> 00:31:34,000
That's why we're talking, by the way.

1045
00:31:34,000 --> 00:31:36,000
But it's...

1046
00:31:36,000 --> 00:31:38,000
One of the low-hanging fruits of Noster is like...

1047
00:31:38,000 --> 00:31:41,000
My relay set changes all the time.

1048
00:31:41,000 --> 00:31:44,000
I want to have a demon or a smart thing running in the background.

1049
00:31:44,000 --> 00:31:48,000
Grabbing all my events and re-broadcasting them to my current relay set.

1050
00:31:48,000 --> 00:31:50,000
Just to fight the BitRot.

1051
00:31:50,000 --> 00:31:51,000
Yeah.

1052
00:31:51,000 --> 00:31:53,000
I want to have a BitRot defense mechanism.

1053
00:31:53,000 --> 00:31:55,000
And the same for blossom stuff.

1054
00:31:55,000 --> 00:31:57,000
Like my blossom servers change and so on.

1055
00:31:57,000 --> 00:31:59,000
Just, you know, just to hint.

1056
00:31:59,000 --> 00:32:00,000
I know.

1057
00:32:00,000 --> 00:32:01,000
Nudge Nudge.

1058
00:32:01,000 --> 00:32:03,000
It's a way to do this to like a year now.

1059
00:32:03,000 --> 00:32:05,000
Bucke is nice, right?

1060
00:32:05,000 --> 00:32:06,000
Was it Florian who bought it?

1061
00:32:06,000 --> 00:32:07,000
Yeah.

1062
00:32:07,000 --> 00:32:08,000
Yeah.

1063
00:32:08,000 --> 00:32:12,000
It's awesome because it's a step-in-the-right direction where you can see at least...

1064
00:32:12,000 --> 00:32:15,000
Okay, this blob only exists in one blossom server.

1065
00:32:15,000 --> 00:32:17,000
And with one click, you can upload it to multiple hands-on.

1066
00:32:17,000 --> 00:32:18,000
But this should happen automatically.

1067
00:32:18,000 --> 00:32:22,000
I have multiple blossom servers in my Noster profile right now.

1068
00:32:23,000 --> 00:32:26,000
You can just grab the things, download the fucking blob,

1069
00:32:26,000 --> 00:32:28,000
re-upload it to the other ones and delete it again.

1070
00:32:28,000 --> 00:32:31,000
Very super low-hanging fruit.

1071
00:32:31,000 --> 00:32:34,000
And on the client side, on the Noster client side,

1072
00:32:34,000 --> 00:32:38,000
what should happen is like if a blossom link 404s,

1073
00:32:38,000 --> 00:32:43,000
grab the blossom servers from the user and try to find it and try to repair the link.

1074
00:32:43,000 --> 00:32:46,000
The whole point of blossom is to have self-healing links,

1075
00:32:46,000 --> 00:32:48,000
just like Noster identifies as self-healing.

1076
00:32:48,000 --> 00:32:50,000
And we don't have it yet.

1077
00:32:50,000 --> 00:32:52,000
If a blossom server goes down, everything goes down.

1078
00:32:52,000 --> 00:32:53,000
Like I got an email.

1079
00:32:53,000 --> 00:32:59,000
We got an email because the haven relay of sovereign engineering went down.

1080
00:32:59,000 --> 00:33:05,000
And the no-solutions audio files are stored on that one.

1081
00:33:05,000 --> 00:33:08,000
And literally one server went down and the whole podcast everything disappeared.

1082
00:33:08,000 --> 00:33:09,000
Yeah.

1083
00:33:09,000 --> 00:33:11,000
So we're not there yet.

1084
00:33:11,000 --> 00:33:14,000
We still have some low-hanging fruits to implement.

1085
00:33:14,000 --> 00:33:17,000
Yeah, like the idea is out there, but it still needs...

1086
00:33:17,000 --> 00:33:23,000
And I think that's also what got me starting to think about.

1087
00:33:23,000 --> 00:33:27,000
Well, it feels like the local first is the solution for a lot of that stuff

1088
00:33:27,000 --> 00:33:31,000
because the blobs are heavier, so it makes like less server.

1089
00:33:31,000 --> 00:33:33,000
Like there's less blossom servers because they're just heavy.

1090
00:33:33,000 --> 00:33:34,000
Yeah.

1091
00:33:34,000 --> 00:33:35,000
It's hard to move.

1092
00:33:35,000 --> 00:33:36,000
Yeah.

1093
00:33:36,000 --> 00:33:40,000
But if you do local first, then...

1094
00:33:40,000 --> 00:33:42,000
No, it is the solution.

1095
00:33:42,000 --> 00:33:45,000
The local first is because like you just need...

1096
00:33:46,000 --> 00:33:49,000
Maybe not even local first, like local also.

1097
00:33:49,000 --> 00:33:50,000
Because I also...

1098
00:33:50,000 --> 00:33:53,000
I don't want to be super aligned on my local...

1099
00:33:53,000 --> 00:33:55,000
It should be like a cache kind of.

1100
00:33:55,000 --> 00:33:56,000
If it goes away, it goes away.

1101
00:33:56,000 --> 00:33:57,000
I don't care.

1102
00:33:57,000 --> 00:33:58,000
I can rebuild it.

1103
00:33:58,000 --> 00:33:59,000
We can rebuild it.

1104
00:33:59,000 --> 00:34:00,000
We have the technology.

1105
00:34:00,000 --> 00:34:01,000
It's all out there.

1106
00:34:01,000 --> 00:34:04,000
You just scrap the stuff again, back to the like an equal zero idea, right?

1107
00:34:04,000 --> 00:34:05,000
Right.

1108
00:34:05,000 --> 00:34:06,000
You just hit all the other relays.

1109
00:34:06,000 --> 00:34:07,000
It should be all there.

1110
00:34:07,000 --> 00:34:09,000
It's not local first.

1111
00:34:09,000 --> 00:34:10,000
It's not local.

1112
00:34:10,000 --> 00:34:13,000
I mean local first, but it's like local also.

1113
00:34:13,000 --> 00:34:14,000
Yeah.

1114
00:34:14,000 --> 00:34:16,000
And so it's...

1115
00:34:16,000 --> 00:34:18,000
Don't forget about local.

1116
00:34:18,000 --> 00:34:20,000
It's the missing piece in Blossom.

1117
00:34:20,000 --> 00:34:22,000
It's like the other piece that just hasn't been built yet.

1118
00:34:22,000 --> 00:34:23,000
That it needs to be.

1119
00:34:23,000 --> 00:34:27,000
Because the interesting thing is that it needs to be experimented.

1120
00:34:27,000 --> 00:34:30,000
And there's two ideas I have that haven't built yet.

1121
00:34:30,000 --> 00:34:35,000
One of them is just like the local cache of just blossom blooms.

1122
00:34:35,000 --> 00:34:38,000
That's been bugging me because I haven't built it for like a last year.

1123
00:34:38,000 --> 00:34:42,000
It was literally the first thing I built in like the prototype before Blossom was like,

1124
00:34:42,000 --> 00:34:44,000
you just make this like a reverse proxy cache.

1125
00:34:44,000 --> 00:34:45,000
Yeah.

1126
00:34:45,000 --> 00:34:48,000
Because if you built it, you get a CDN for free.

1127
00:34:48,000 --> 00:34:49,000
Yeah.

1128
00:34:49,000 --> 00:34:54,000
Because the same thing that we talked about about what NOSTER data is relevant for you in terms of events and so on.

1129
00:34:54,000 --> 00:34:55,000
Yeah.

1130
00:34:55,000 --> 00:34:59,000
What blobs are relevant for you or your community or your area even?

1131
00:34:59,000 --> 00:35:02,000
Like if you're German, you're probably going to consume German content.

1132
00:35:02,000 --> 00:35:03,000
Yeah.

1133
00:35:03,000 --> 00:35:04,000
German media content, videos and so on.

1134
00:35:04,000 --> 00:35:06,000
And then it's for free.

1135
00:35:06,000 --> 00:35:07,000
Exactly.

1136
00:35:07,000 --> 00:35:08,000
Without...

1137
00:35:08,000 --> 00:35:09,000
Exactly.

1138
00:35:10,000 --> 00:35:12,000
You don't have to implement smart things.

1139
00:35:12,000 --> 00:35:13,000
No.

1140
00:35:13,000 --> 00:35:15,000
Left side of the bell curve CDN.

1141
00:35:15,000 --> 00:35:16,000
Yeah.

1142
00:35:16,000 --> 00:35:18,000
And the interesting thing is like the users will do it for you in some sense.

1143
00:35:18,000 --> 00:35:21,000
The user activity is what will populate the CDN.

1144
00:35:21,000 --> 00:35:22,000
Yeah.

1145
00:35:22,000 --> 00:35:24,000
So like that's the first...

1146
00:35:24,000 --> 00:35:28,000
Assuming that enough user's self-host and so on, which we, you know, like that's...

1147
00:35:28,000 --> 00:35:30,000
We have a lot of assumptions.

1148
00:35:30,000 --> 00:35:32,000
But it's in your best interest to do that.

1149
00:35:32,000 --> 00:35:33,000
It's just like with running NOSTER.

1150
00:35:33,000 --> 00:35:36,000
We haven't seen this with NOSTER really yet either, which could be an interesting...

1151
00:35:36,000 --> 00:35:38,000
It's a less useful case because there's so many NOSTER notes

1152
00:35:38,000 --> 00:35:40,000
that the burden of synchronizing is harder.

1153
00:35:40,000 --> 00:35:43,000
But if you had a NOSTER relay that didn't store anything initially

1154
00:35:43,000 --> 00:35:47,000
and just started storing things based on the queries it got...

1155
00:35:47,000 --> 00:35:51,000
We have some relays that only safe notes from the last 24 hours over the last week.

1156
00:35:51,000 --> 00:35:53,000
We have some of those.

1157
00:35:53,000 --> 00:35:54,000
Hmm.

1158
00:35:54,000 --> 00:35:55,000
So this already exists.

1159
00:35:55,000 --> 00:35:56,000
It's something different though.

1160
00:35:56,000 --> 00:35:57,000
It's like...

1161
00:35:57,000 --> 00:35:58,000
The preference is...

1162
00:35:58,000 --> 00:35:59,000
Like maybe...

1163
00:35:59,000 --> 00:36:00,000
Okay.

1164
00:36:00,000 --> 00:36:02,000
It's slight tangent, but I want to get back to the blossom thing.

1165
00:36:02,000 --> 00:36:03,000
It's like...

1166
00:36:03,000 --> 00:36:04,000
The topic...

1167
00:36:04,000 --> 00:36:05,000
It's kind of going all the way down.

1168
00:36:05,000 --> 00:36:06,000
Don't be afraid.

1169
00:36:06,000 --> 00:36:07,000
The topic-based relays.

1170
00:36:07,000 --> 00:36:10,000
I've talked about it a little bit and...

1171
00:36:10,000 --> 00:36:11,000
Yeah.

1172
00:36:11,000 --> 00:36:12,000
A few other people are experimenting with.

1173
00:36:12,000 --> 00:36:13,000
Yeah.

1174
00:36:13,000 --> 00:36:16,000
It's a relay that will just accept content that talks about relays.

1175
00:36:16,000 --> 00:36:17,000
Right, right.

1176
00:36:17,000 --> 00:36:18,000
But they relied on publishing.

1177
00:36:18,000 --> 00:36:19,000
Yeah.

1178
00:36:19,000 --> 00:36:20,000
Which was...

1179
00:36:20,000 --> 00:36:23,000
It's kind of a weak link because it's back to the whole thing of like...

1180
00:36:23,000 --> 00:36:24,000
The email list and what's global.

1181
00:36:24,000 --> 00:36:26,000
It's like, I just want to publish out.

1182
00:36:26,000 --> 00:36:29,000
I don't want to think where it's being published.

1183
00:36:29,000 --> 00:36:30,000
So it's an extra burden.

1184
00:36:30,000 --> 00:36:34,000
It's extra work for me to make a topic-based relay because I have to publish to it.

1185
00:36:34,000 --> 00:36:39,000
Whereas there's maybe an opposite approach which is a topic-based relay that...

1186
00:36:39,000 --> 00:36:40,000
I don't see that way.

1187
00:36:40,000 --> 00:36:41,000
I don't see that way.

1188
00:36:41,000 --> 00:36:44,000
I don't see that way because I just include the whale relay.

1189
00:36:44,000 --> 00:36:45,000
Let's take back the whale one.

1190
00:36:45,000 --> 00:36:46,000
That's an easy example.

1191
00:36:46,000 --> 00:36:50,000
And if I ever talk about whales, it's going to land on this relay.

1192
00:36:50,000 --> 00:36:53,000
And I assume that the whale enthusiasts will keep this data around for long.

1193
00:36:53,000 --> 00:36:54,000
It's also less data.

1194
00:36:54,000 --> 00:36:56,000
You see it differently?

1195
00:36:56,000 --> 00:36:59,000
But the Reddit approach is the opposite in some sense.

1196
00:36:59,000 --> 00:37:03,000
There's like a legit way where they pull the information.

1197
00:37:03,000 --> 00:37:06,000
Yeah, yes, also.

1198
00:37:06,000 --> 00:37:08,000
But there is cross-posting as well.

1199
00:37:08,000 --> 00:37:09,000
Yeah.

1200
00:37:09,000 --> 00:37:11,000
Cross-posting is like broadcasting in some sense.

1201
00:37:11,000 --> 00:37:13,000
And there is also cross-posting and then deletion.

1202
00:37:13,000 --> 00:37:14,000
So it's kind of...

1203
00:37:14,000 --> 00:37:15,000
I don't know.

1204
00:37:18,000 --> 00:37:19,000
It's weird.

1205
00:37:19,000 --> 00:37:21,000
I'm more on the...

1206
00:37:21,000 --> 00:37:22,000
Like, it's blasted everywhere camp.

1207
00:37:22,000 --> 00:37:24,000
And wherever it stays, it stays.

1208
00:37:24,000 --> 00:37:25,000
Yeah.

1209
00:37:25,000 --> 00:37:27,000
And it works better in that sense.

1210
00:37:27,000 --> 00:37:29,000
Because it also works with locals.

1211
00:37:29,000 --> 00:37:30,000
Like, you know, let's black...

1212
00:37:30,000 --> 00:37:32,000
You blaster, do you pull it everywhere?

1213
00:37:32,000 --> 00:37:36,000
Like anyone who follows a certain podcast just automatically pulls down its MP3 files.

1214
00:37:36,000 --> 00:37:39,000
And then if they stay on the local machine and they...

1215
00:37:39,000 --> 00:37:41,000
It's curated in some sense.

1216
00:37:41,000 --> 00:37:43,000
I mean, what we are describing right now,

1217
00:37:43,000 --> 00:37:46,000
Torrance have implemented for a long, long time.

1218
00:37:46,000 --> 00:37:47,000
Yeah.

1219
00:37:47,000 --> 00:37:50,000
So I always come back like, if we talk about the censorship-resistant stuff,

1220
00:37:50,000 --> 00:37:52,000
I always kind of land on Torrance.

1221
00:37:52,000 --> 00:37:53,000
Yeah.

1222
00:37:53,000 --> 00:37:55,000
And I still think that that's another low-hanging fruit.

1223
00:37:55,000 --> 00:37:56,000
But it's...

1224
00:37:56,000 --> 00:37:58,000
It's almost there and the problem is like...

1225
00:37:58,000 --> 00:38:00,000
I think the problem is jail mostly.

1226
00:38:00,000 --> 00:38:03,000
I think a lot of smart people are afraid to touch it.

1227
00:38:03,000 --> 00:38:06,000
Because, of course, Torrance have a bad rap.

1228
00:38:06,000 --> 00:38:08,000
But they shouldn't have, actually.

1229
00:38:08,000 --> 00:38:13,000
Like, all the earliest video podcasts were distributed with Torrance.

1230
00:38:13,000 --> 00:38:14,000
Because YouTube didn't exist yet.

1231
00:38:14,000 --> 00:38:15,000
Right, right.

1232
00:38:15,000 --> 00:38:16,000
And so...

1233
00:38:16,000 --> 00:38:19,000
And no one had the capabilities to actually host large files and so on.

1234
00:38:19,000 --> 00:38:20,000
And so...

1235
00:38:20,000 --> 00:38:22,000
And also the first...

1236
00:38:22,000 --> 00:38:26,000
I think the video game installs like games are like five gigabytes,

1237
00:38:26,000 --> 00:38:27,000
10 gigabytes and so on.

1238
00:38:27,000 --> 00:38:29,000
Like, at least blizzard did it.

1239
00:38:29,000 --> 00:38:30,000
They still do it.

1240
00:38:30,000 --> 00:38:31,000
I think so.

1241
00:38:31,000 --> 00:38:34,000
So there is loads of legitimate use for...

1242
00:38:34,000 --> 00:38:36,000
Torrance is a fantastic protocol.

1243
00:38:36,000 --> 00:38:37,000
It's just a fantastic protocol.

1244
00:38:37,000 --> 00:38:39,000
And I hope that soon.

1245
00:38:39,000 --> 00:38:42,000
Because we do have a media hosting problem.

1246
00:38:42,000 --> 00:38:44,000
And the solution is not...

1247
00:38:44,000 --> 00:38:48,000
The solution we have right now is like everyone uploads to the primal blossom server, basically.

1248
00:38:48,000 --> 00:38:49,000
More or less.

1249
00:38:49,000 --> 00:38:50,000
You know, like...

1250
00:38:50,000 --> 00:38:52,000
Use one of the centralized solutions.

1251
00:38:52,000 --> 00:38:54,000
And the file lives in one place and it works well.

1252
00:38:54,000 --> 00:38:55,000
It does, yeah.

1253
00:38:55,000 --> 00:38:56,000
It goes right back to like the whole existing...

1254
00:38:56,000 --> 00:38:57,000
Exactly.

1255
00:38:57,000 --> 00:38:59,000
It works well enough for now.

1256
00:38:59,000 --> 00:39:00,000
But what we should have...

1257
00:39:00,000 --> 00:39:01,000
Let me just like...

1258
00:39:01,000 --> 00:39:02,000
Been this for a moment.

1259
00:39:02,000 --> 00:39:04,000
But what we should have is...

1260
00:39:04,000 --> 00:39:05,000
We should...

1261
00:39:05,000 --> 00:39:06,000
We should have...

1262
00:39:06,000 --> 00:39:08,000
And I mean, I know it's like...

1263
00:39:08,000 --> 00:39:10,000
It's dangerous to build this out in some sense or...

1264
00:39:10,000 --> 00:39:11,000
I don't know if you want to do it.

1265
00:39:11,000 --> 00:39:13,000
But what we kind of should have...

1266
00:39:13,000 --> 00:39:15,000
And we have all that building blocks again.

1267
00:39:15,000 --> 00:39:18,000
Like, Torrance have existed and worked fantastically well for it.

1268
00:39:18,000 --> 00:39:19,000
Wow.

1269
00:39:19,000 --> 00:39:20,000
If I...

1270
00:39:20,000 --> 00:39:22,000
Let's take American Hotels blocks.

1271
00:39:22,000 --> 00:39:23,000
If he publishes a blog...

1272
00:39:23,000 --> 00:39:24,000
Everyone who watches it...

1273
00:39:24,000 --> 00:39:26,000
The video is already on the phone.

1274
00:39:26,000 --> 00:39:26,500
Yes.

1275
00:39:26,500 --> 00:39:27,500
And for a little while...

1276
00:39:27,500 --> 00:39:29,500
I'm fine with seating that again.

1277
00:39:29,500 --> 00:39:31,500
Let me see it for a week.

1278
00:39:31,500 --> 00:39:33,500
And so if something goes viral, for example...

1279
00:39:33,500 --> 00:39:34,500
It's just gonna...

1280
00:39:34,500 --> 00:39:35,500
It's gonna be everywhere.

1281
00:39:35,500 --> 00:39:36,500
And it doesn't matter...

1282
00:39:36,500 --> 00:39:37,500
There's no server, you know?

1283
00:39:37,500 --> 00:39:38,500
Right, right.

1284
00:39:38,500 --> 00:39:39,500
But that's kind of the...

1285
00:39:42,500 --> 00:39:43,500
It's like...

1286
00:39:43,500 --> 00:39:44,500
That...

1287
00:39:44,500 --> 00:39:46,500
That is the idea to get to...

1288
00:39:46,500 --> 00:39:47,500
But to get there...

1289
00:39:47,500 --> 00:39:48,500
It's almost like we have to build down.

1290
00:39:48,500 --> 00:39:50,500
Because like the building up...

1291
00:39:50,500 --> 00:39:51,500
Like the whole like IPFS idea.

1292
00:39:51,500 --> 00:39:52,500
Like everyone...

1293
00:39:52,500 --> 00:39:53,500
Even...

1294
00:39:53,500 --> 00:39:54,500
Ah, IPFS is for targets.

1295
00:39:54,500 --> 00:39:55,500
Just ask via Jeff.

1296
00:39:55,500 --> 00:39:56,500
Yeah.

1297
00:39:56,500 --> 00:39:57,500
Well, I agree with him on that.

1298
00:39:57,500 --> 00:39:58,500
And that was...

1299
00:39:58,500 --> 00:40:00,500
But like the whole building up idea is...

1300
00:40:00,500 --> 00:40:01,500
There's so much to overcome.

1301
00:40:01,500 --> 00:40:02,500
But if you start building...

1302
00:40:02,500 --> 00:40:04,500
If you start building like CDNs down...

1303
00:40:04,500 --> 00:40:05,500
In some sense.

1304
00:40:05,500 --> 00:40:06,500
Like...

1305
00:40:06,500 --> 00:40:07,500
Like more local...

1306
00:40:07,500 --> 00:40:08,500
Yeah.

1307
00:40:08,500 --> 00:40:09,500
Like more local CDNs.

1308
00:40:09,500 --> 00:40:10,500
Then eventually maybe you get all the way down to the usual world.

1309
00:40:10,500 --> 00:40:11,500
Yes.

1310
00:40:11,500 --> 00:40:12,500
But at least you get down to the community.

1311
00:40:12,500 --> 00:40:13,500
Yes.

1312
00:40:13,500 --> 00:40:15,500
And it's way easier to do it with...

1313
00:40:15,500 --> 00:40:17,500
Blobs and with Jason Files...

1314
00:40:17,500 --> 00:40:18,500
Yes.

1315
00:40:18,500 --> 00:40:19,500
Then with...

1316
00:40:19,500 --> 00:40:20,500
I don't know.

1317
00:40:20,500 --> 00:40:21,500
I think no.

1318
00:40:21,500 --> 00:40:22,500
So what I...

1319
00:40:22,500 --> 00:40:24,500
When I hope it's gonna happen is...

1320
00:40:24,500 --> 00:40:25,500
I gotta take time.

1321
00:40:25,500 --> 00:40:26,500
Like just building it out.

1322
00:40:26,500 --> 00:40:27,500
It's gonna take time.

1323
00:40:27,500 --> 00:40:28,500
Vibe coding or not.

1324
00:40:28,500 --> 00:40:30,500
But loads of people have start lines.

1325
00:40:30,500 --> 00:40:32,500
Loads of people have umbrellas and so on.

1326
00:40:32,500 --> 00:40:33,500
And just...

1327
00:40:33,500 --> 00:40:36,500
I just reminded you of another thing that you wanted to build and you didn't.

1328
00:40:36,500 --> 00:40:38,500
No, it's like...

1329
00:40:38,500 --> 00:40:40,500
Nobody sees that yet.

1330
00:40:40,500 --> 00:40:41,500
But that's the next step.

1331
00:40:41,500 --> 00:40:44,500
Build something that's one click install.

1332
00:40:44,500 --> 00:40:46,500
Just back up all my data.

1333
00:40:46,500 --> 00:40:47,500
But it's local first.

1334
00:40:47,500 --> 00:40:48,500
It is.

1335
00:40:48,500 --> 00:40:49,500
It back up all my data.

1336
00:40:49,500 --> 00:40:53,500
You put it in your master profile.

1337
00:40:53,500 --> 00:40:56,500
So all your clients automatically connect to your thing.

1338
00:40:56,500 --> 00:40:58,500
Like we have the first inklinks of that already.

1339
00:40:58,500 --> 00:41:00,500
We've lost a relay tray with some things and so on.

1340
00:41:00,500 --> 00:41:01,500
Yes. Yes. Yes.

1341
00:41:01,500 --> 00:41:02,500
Let's go there.

1342
00:41:02,500 --> 00:41:03,500
Here's the interesting thing.

1343
00:41:03,500 --> 00:41:04,500
Let's try to avoid the noise.

1344
00:41:04,500 --> 00:41:06,500
This is what...

1345
00:41:06,500 --> 00:41:08,500
I don't know when I figured this out.

1346
00:41:08,500 --> 00:41:09,500
I figured it out recently.

1347
00:41:09,500 --> 00:41:12,500
But because I've been trying to think what's kept me from building

1348
00:41:12,500 --> 00:41:17,500
that kind of like local Blossom cache is laziness.

1349
00:41:17,500 --> 00:41:20,500
And the second part, which is...

1350
00:41:20,500 --> 00:41:22,500
I don't know how to tell the user what it is.

1351
00:41:22,500 --> 00:41:25,500
In the best case, you don't have to.

1352
00:41:25,500 --> 00:41:26,500
If it's a cache.

1353
00:41:26,500 --> 00:41:29,500
But the interesting thing is I want to tell...

1354
00:41:29,500 --> 00:41:33,500
There's one sales point which is this will make everything go faster.

1355
00:41:33,500 --> 00:41:34,500
Yeah.

1356
00:41:34,500 --> 00:41:35,500
And that's a nice sales point.

1357
00:41:35,500 --> 00:41:37,500
But I want to tell the user...

1358
00:41:37,500 --> 00:41:39,500
No, it's not the user.

1359
00:41:39,500 --> 00:41:40,500
It's maybe the other developers.

1360
00:41:40,500 --> 00:41:41,500
But why?

1361
00:41:41,500 --> 00:41:46,500
And the why is hard because the local cache is understandable.

1362
00:41:46,500 --> 00:41:48,500
And it works.

1363
00:41:48,500 --> 00:41:49,500
That's one use case.

1364
00:41:49,500 --> 00:41:52,500
But I want to tell...

1365
00:41:52,500 --> 00:41:54,500
Why local?

1366
00:41:54,500 --> 00:41:57,500
Why not just make my cache primal?

1367
00:41:57,500 --> 00:41:58,500
And the why?

1368
00:41:58,500 --> 00:41:59,500
Say that again.

1369
00:41:59,500 --> 00:42:00,500
Why not make your cache primal?

1370
00:42:00,500 --> 00:42:01,500
Like...

1371
00:42:01,500 --> 00:42:02,500
You're sorry, primal.net.

1372
00:42:02,500 --> 00:42:03,500
Like the block...

1373
00:42:03,500 --> 00:42:04,500
Why not rebuild Cloudflare?

1374
00:42:04,500 --> 00:42:05,500
That's what you're asking.

1375
00:42:05,500 --> 00:42:06,500
Exactly.

1376
00:42:06,500 --> 00:42:07,500
Like why?

1377
00:42:07,500 --> 00:42:11,500
So, if the sales point is make things go faster.

1378
00:42:11,500 --> 00:42:12,500
Why not just rebuild Cloudflare?

1379
00:42:12,500 --> 00:42:14,500
Because you might be offline.

1380
00:42:14,500 --> 00:42:17,500
Yes, but that's...

1381
00:42:18,500 --> 00:42:19,500
There's something...

1382
00:42:19,500 --> 00:42:20,500
Yes.

1383
00:42:20,500 --> 00:42:21,500
But like...

1384
00:42:21,500 --> 00:42:24,500
I have an answer that will not satisfy anyone, but still the right answer.

1385
00:42:24,500 --> 00:42:26,500
Because we want to build it right.

1386
00:42:26,500 --> 00:42:29,500
And building Cloudflare is building it wrong.

1387
00:42:29,500 --> 00:42:30,500
Right.

1388
00:42:30,500 --> 00:42:33,500
And but there's something there which is that...

1389
00:42:33,500 --> 00:42:35,500
The building at right is back to...

1390
00:42:35,500 --> 00:42:37,500
In some sense, like back to the person with the computer.

1391
00:42:37,500 --> 00:42:39,500
Why local?

1392
00:42:39,500 --> 00:42:40,500
Because it's actually...

1393
00:42:40,500 --> 00:42:41,500
It's what you said.

1394
00:42:41,500 --> 00:42:42,500
It works.

1395
00:42:42,500 --> 00:42:43,500
It's actually censorship resistance.

1396
00:42:43,500 --> 00:42:44,500
And it...

1397
00:42:44,500 --> 00:42:46,500
And what it means to translate it to normy speak.

1398
00:42:46,500 --> 00:42:48,500
No one cares about censorship resistance.

1399
00:42:48,500 --> 00:42:50,500
You don't care about censorship resistance.

1400
00:42:50,500 --> 00:42:53,500
Until you have to care about censorship resistance.

1401
00:42:53,500 --> 00:42:57,500
But another way of saying resistance to censorship is 100% uptime.

1402
00:42:57,500 --> 00:42:59,500
It will always be available.

1403
00:42:59,500 --> 00:43:00,500
It has 100% uptime.

1404
00:43:00,500 --> 00:43:03,500
There's something more there, I think, which is also...

1405
00:43:03,500 --> 00:43:06,500
Resistance is trying to find a word...

1406
00:43:06,500 --> 00:43:07,500
Long-term reliance.

1407
00:43:07,500 --> 00:43:08,500
Long-term reliance.

1408
00:43:08,500 --> 00:43:13,500
Resistance to mutability and being changed.

1409
00:43:13,500 --> 00:43:14,500
Like it is...

1410
00:43:14,500 --> 00:43:16,500
You can't get Ruggpool.

1411
00:43:16,500 --> 00:43:17,500
That's the thing.

1412
00:43:17,500 --> 00:43:18,500
You can only Ruggpool yourself.

1413
00:43:18,500 --> 00:43:20,500
But it's not like Ruggpool isn't like just like yanked offline.

1414
00:43:20,500 --> 00:43:22,500
It's Ruggpool is like what you're seeing with the other...

1415
00:43:22,500 --> 00:43:25,500
Let's take an example at everyone understands basically.

1416
00:43:25,500 --> 00:43:28,500
There's lots of people that build up content on the internet

1417
00:43:28,500 --> 00:43:30,500
and they build it in someone else's house.

1418
00:43:30,500 --> 00:43:31,500
Yes.

1419
00:43:31,500 --> 00:43:34,500
And then the house goes bankrupt or goes away or gets sold

1420
00:43:34,500 --> 00:43:36,500
and all your stuff is gone.

1421
00:43:36,500 --> 00:43:38,500
Geosid is my space.

1422
00:43:38,500 --> 00:43:39,500
Pick your poison.

1423
00:43:39,500 --> 00:43:41,500
And those are very old examples.

1424
00:43:41,500 --> 00:43:43,500
Still exists today with YouTube and everything else.

1425
00:43:43,500 --> 00:43:45,500
YouTube can Ruggpool you at any minute.

1426
00:43:45,500 --> 00:43:49,500
And so you have to have long-term stability.

1427
00:43:49,500 --> 00:43:51,500
You have to run your own...

1428
00:43:51,500 --> 00:43:53,500
No, thanks. No weed for me today.

1429
00:43:53,500 --> 00:43:55,500
Thanks. We're in the middle of something.

1430
00:43:55,500 --> 00:44:00,500
But who knows? Maybe one day we'll try.

1431
00:44:00,500 --> 00:44:06,500
Do I look so much like a homeless person that just random people

1432
00:44:06,500 --> 00:44:08,500
in the street offer me drugs?

1433
00:44:08,500 --> 00:44:10,500
Probably.

1434
00:44:10,500 --> 00:44:12,500
Perfect customer.

1435
00:44:12,500 --> 00:44:14,500
He knows his crowd.

1436
00:44:14,500 --> 00:44:16,500
He just looks at the people.

1437
00:44:16,500 --> 00:44:18,500
This is this one.

1438
00:44:18,500 --> 00:44:20,500
Talk to this one.

1439
00:44:20,500 --> 00:44:23,500
But I think talking about it,

1440
00:44:23,500 --> 00:44:26,500
if we actually want to reach more people and go out of our bubble,

1441
00:44:26,500 --> 00:44:30,500
talking about censorship resistance is not the way in some sense.

1442
00:44:30,500 --> 00:44:31,500
No, no.

1443
00:44:31,500 --> 00:44:34,500
It's still a core value that makes everything work.

1444
00:44:34,500 --> 00:44:37,500
But the side effects.

1445
00:44:37,500 --> 00:44:43,500
I'm going to keep harping on this just because I had one coffee too many.

1446
00:44:43,500 --> 00:44:45,500
Every app works in flight mode.

1447
00:44:45,500 --> 00:44:47,500
Everything works in flight mode.

1448
00:44:47,500 --> 00:44:49,500
You have an offline mode.

1449
00:44:49,500 --> 00:44:51,500
For free.

1450
00:44:51,500 --> 00:44:53,500
It's your developer.

1451
00:44:53,500 --> 00:44:55,500
You never need an API key.

1452
00:44:55,500 --> 00:44:57,500
You don't need to sign up.

1453
00:44:57,500 --> 00:44:59,500
You can just build.

1454
00:44:59,500 --> 00:45:01,500
You can just do things.

1455
00:45:01,500 --> 00:45:03,500
Yes, but I love files.

1456
00:45:03,500 --> 00:45:06,500
Maybe one step more, which is everything works.

1457
00:45:06,500 --> 00:45:08,500
But the interesting thing about running everything locally,

1458
00:45:08,500 --> 00:45:13,500
in other words, running everything in the user's compute device.

1459
00:45:13,500 --> 00:45:16,500
It shouldn't matter where things are run.

1460
00:45:16,500 --> 00:45:18,500
And it might as well be local.

1461
00:45:18,500 --> 00:45:19,500
Right.

1462
00:45:19,500 --> 00:45:21,500
But you get something else in local,

1463
00:45:21,500 --> 00:45:24,500
which is kind of back to the browser history and everything else.

1464
00:45:24,500 --> 00:45:26,500
You internally have the user's preference.

1465
00:45:26,500 --> 00:45:27,500
Yes, yes, yes.

1466
00:45:27,500 --> 00:45:29,500
Without it being explicit about them.

1467
00:45:29,500 --> 00:45:31,500
You have the user's algorithm.

1468
00:45:31,500 --> 00:45:34,500
Without needing to set any sense.

1469
00:45:34,500 --> 00:45:36,500
Let me rephrase that.

1470
00:45:36,500 --> 00:45:39,500
The data accumulates where it needs to accumulate.

1471
00:45:39,500 --> 00:45:40,500
Yes.

1472
00:45:40,500 --> 00:45:43,500
And then other apps and all the whole system can make use of the accumulated data.

1473
00:45:43,500 --> 00:45:45,500
It's like back to the browser history.

1474
00:45:45,500 --> 00:45:47,500
If you install locally,

1475
00:45:47,500 --> 00:45:49,500
the browser history is by default most of the time,

1476
00:45:49,500 --> 00:45:52,500
if young correctly, is stored locally.

1477
00:45:52,500 --> 00:45:54,500
If you just analyze that locally,

1478
00:45:54,500 --> 00:45:56,500
you have the user's preferences.

1479
00:45:56,500 --> 00:45:57,500
Yeah.

1480
00:45:57,500 --> 00:45:59,500
And interests and other things that's on.

1481
00:45:59,500 --> 00:46:01,500
And so everything you're interested in,

1482
00:46:01,500 --> 00:46:03,500
you just have it purely because it accumulates locally.

1483
00:46:03,500 --> 00:46:04,500
Yeah.

1484
00:46:04,500 --> 00:46:05,500
And here is a neat thing.

1485
00:46:05,500 --> 00:46:08,500
Like in general, we could, for example, identify the user's local relays.

1486
00:46:08,500 --> 00:46:11,500
We can't already do that because we already have relays listed our local.

1487
00:46:11,500 --> 00:46:12,500
Yes.

1488
00:46:12,500 --> 00:46:13,500
Like we already have this.

1489
00:46:13,500 --> 00:46:15,500
And so you can do,

1490
00:46:15,500 --> 00:46:17,500
you can, you can,

1491
00:46:17,500 --> 00:46:19,500
because I'm not interested what's trending on Primal.

1492
00:46:19,500 --> 00:46:22,500
Like right now, maybe, because it's like a couple of hundred people,

1493
00:46:22,500 --> 00:46:23,500
everyone's my friend.

1494
00:46:23,500 --> 00:46:24,500
Yes.

1495
00:46:24,500 --> 00:46:25,500
But in the future, you won't,

1496
00:46:25,500 --> 00:46:26,500
I'm not interested.

1497
00:46:26,500 --> 00:46:27,500
Like, let me take a different example.

1498
00:46:27,500 --> 00:46:30,500
When Twitter grow as big as it grew,

1499
00:46:30,500 --> 00:46:33,500
I'm not interested about what's trending on Twitter.

1500
00:46:33,500 --> 00:46:34,500
Yeah.

1501
00:46:34,500 --> 00:46:35,500
It's completely uninterested,

1502
00:46:35,500 --> 00:46:36,500
uninteresting to me.

1503
00:46:36,500 --> 00:46:37,500
But what's trending,

1504
00:46:37,500 --> 00:46:40,500
what has been trending in the last 48 hours on my local relay,

1505
00:46:40,500 --> 00:46:41,500
or on my community relay,

1506
00:46:41,500 --> 00:46:43,500
I'm probably interested in my web of trust,

1507
00:46:43,500 --> 00:46:46,500
web of trust relays are kind of local relays in that sense.

1508
00:46:46,500 --> 00:46:47,500
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

1509
00:46:47,500 --> 00:46:48,500
They're just local relays.

1510
00:46:48,500 --> 00:46:49,500
What's trending in my watch relay?

1511
00:46:49,500 --> 00:46:52,500
Like WOT dot theirGG dot com,

1512
00:46:52,500 --> 00:46:53,500
come join the party.

1513
00:46:53,500 --> 00:46:55,500
I follow like one and a half thousand people,

1514
00:46:55,500 --> 00:46:56,500
so it's a big crowd.

1515
00:46:56,500 --> 00:46:57,500
That's a big crowd.

1516
00:46:57,500 --> 00:46:58,500
It's a big party there.

1517
00:46:58,500 --> 00:47:01,500
No, but it's, it's um,

1518
00:47:01,500 --> 00:47:03,500
and kind of like,

1519
00:47:03,500 --> 00:47:07,500
I'm like, that was the part,

1520
00:47:07,500 --> 00:47:10,500
that is the thing I'm just trying to figure out with,

1521
00:47:10,500 --> 00:47:11,500
not figure out,

1522
00:47:11,500 --> 00:47:13,500
that is the part I think I have a solution for,

1523
00:47:13,500 --> 00:47:14,500
for the blossom stuff,

1524
00:47:14,500 --> 00:47:17,500
because there's kind of an issue with the blossom blobs

1525
00:47:17,500 --> 00:47:19,500
and they don't move quickly.

1526
00:47:19,500 --> 00:47:21,500
They don't move, they don't move,

1527
00:47:21,500 --> 00:47:23,500
but it has to be either organically

1528
00:47:23,500 --> 00:47:24,500
or a background worker.

1529
00:47:24,500 --> 00:47:26,500
For images, it works organically in the class.

1530
00:47:26,500 --> 00:47:27,500
Yeah, images work, yeah.

1531
00:47:27,500 --> 00:47:29,500
But like,

1532
00:47:29,500 --> 00:47:31,500
like the user,

1533
00:47:31,500 --> 00:47:32,500
like because this is,

1534
00:47:32,500 --> 00:47:34,500
this is one of the issues,

1535
00:47:34,500 --> 00:47:35,500
that could be solved.

1536
00:47:35,500 --> 00:47:36,500
I'm trying to build something,

1537
00:47:36,500 --> 00:47:40,500
is that because the nostro notes are visualized so easily,

1538
00:47:40,500 --> 00:47:43,500
feel like we're being rained on really heavily now.

1539
00:47:43,500 --> 00:47:44,500
That's fine.

1540
00:47:44,500 --> 00:47:45,500
We'll be fine.

1541
00:47:45,500 --> 00:47:46,500
Ah, fuck the tree.

1542
00:47:46,500 --> 00:47:48,500
Let's go to the lighthouse.

1543
00:47:48,500 --> 00:47:49,500
But like because,

1544
00:47:49,500 --> 00:47:52,500
because you could just plug a nostro in client

1545
00:47:52,500 --> 00:47:53,500
in your local relay,

1546
00:47:53,500 --> 00:47:54,500
and then see what's on the relay,

1547
00:47:54,500 --> 00:47:56,500
you get kind of an idea of like why,

1548
00:47:56,500 --> 00:47:58,500
but like the preference is the,

1549
00:47:58,500 --> 00:48:00,500
what is, what is actually there?

1550
00:48:00,500 --> 00:48:02,500
I don't know, long story short,

1551
00:48:02,500 --> 00:48:04,500
it's like for the blossom blobs,

1552
00:48:04,500 --> 00:48:08,500
they need like the why local is,

1553
00:48:08,500 --> 00:48:09,500
because it's faster,

1554
00:48:09,500 --> 00:48:11,500
but also like,

1555
00:48:11,500 --> 00:48:13,500
they need context of like why am I,

1556
00:48:13,500 --> 00:48:15,500
why is this thing on my device?

1557
00:48:15,500 --> 00:48:17,500
So for the backup idea,

1558
00:48:17,500 --> 00:48:20,500
one thing I want to see if it works is,

1559
00:48:20,500 --> 00:48:23,500
you don't back up the blossom blobs.

1560
00:48:23,500 --> 00:48:25,500
You backup your data,

1561
00:48:25,500 --> 00:48:27,500
in other words your nostro events,

1562
00:48:27,500 --> 00:48:29,500
with the blossom blobs,

1563
00:48:29,500 --> 00:48:31,500
but you never show the user what files they have.

1564
00:48:31,500 --> 00:48:33,500
You show them what posts they have,

1565
00:48:33,500 --> 00:48:35,500
what podcast episodes they have,

1566
00:48:35,500 --> 00:48:36,500
what,

1567
00:48:36,500 --> 00:48:39,500
like the browser never shows you the HTML pages.

1568
00:48:39,500 --> 00:48:40,500
Oh, sure, sure.

1569
00:48:40,500 --> 00:48:42,500
It shows you the website you've been to.

1570
00:48:42,500 --> 00:48:43,500
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

1571
00:48:43,500 --> 00:48:44,500
You mean, you're just,

1572
00:48:44,500 --> 00:48:47,500
you're mostly interested when you're browsing the thing and so on.

1573
00:48:47,500 --> 00:48:49,500
You actually don't get the whole blob,

1574
00:48:49,500 --> 00:48:50,500
you just get the metadata,

1575
00:48:50,500 --> 00:48:51,500
you just get the header, so to speak,

1576
00:48:51,500 --> 00:48:52,500
you just get the,

1577
00:48:52,500 --> 00:48:53,500
Yeah, you get,

1578
00:48:53,500 --> 00:48:55,500
you get the YouTube thumbnail

1579
00:48:55,500 --> 00:48:56,500
into the description of the title.

1580
00:48:56,500 --> 00:48:57,500
Like when you browse,

1581
00:48:57,500 --> 00:48:59,500
like no, like your browser never shows you its local cache.

1582
00:48:59,500 --> 00:49:01,500
It doesn't show you the CSS HTML,

1583
00:49:01,500 --> 00:49:02,500
image file,

1584
00:49:02,500 --> 00:49:04,500
it never even shows you the image files you have cache.

1585
00:49:04,500 --> 00:49:05,500
It says,

1586
00:49:05,500 --> 00:49:07,500
here's the last website you went to in the last day,

1587
00:49:07,500 --> 00:49:09,500
I've cache most of it.

1588
00:49:09,500 --> 00:49:10,500
Yeah.

1589
00:49:10,500 --> 00:49:11,500
And so the user,

1590
00:49:11,500 --> 00:49:12,500
the why for the user,

1591
00:49:12,500 --> 00:49:14,500
like the why the cache is not,

1592
00:49:14,500 --> 00:49:16,500
oh, this file will come back faster,

1593
00:49:16,500 --> 00:49:17,500
because they don't even know the file exists.

1594
00:49:17,500 --> 00:49:18,500
It's,

1595
00:49:18,500 --> 00:49:20,500
the thing I did before will come back faster.

1596
00:49:20,500 --> 00:49:21,500
Yeah.

1597
00:49:21,500 --> 00:49:22,500
Well, the thing I care about will come back faster.

1598
00:49:22,500 --> 00:49:23,500
Yeah.

1599
00:49:23,500 --> 00:49:24,500
So,

1600
00:49:24,500 --> 00:49:26,500
I don't know,

1601
00:49:26,500 --> 00:49:27,500
it's an idea of it,

1602
00:49:27,500 --> 00:49:28,500
I want to play with more,

1603
00:49:28,500 --> 00:49:30,500
and I think it's right,

1604
00:49:30,500 --> 00:49:33,500
because it's like with a lot of not stuff with not stuff,

1605
00:49:33,500 --> 00:49:35,500
like the user doesn't care about the data,

1606
00:49:35,500 --> 00:49:37,500
like this explicit data,

1607
00:49:37,500 --> 00:49:38,500
they care about the context,

1608
00:49:38,500 --> 00:49:39,500
the thing,

1609
00:49:39,500 --> 00:49:41,500
that's like a collection of it,

1610
00:49:41,500 --> 00:49:42,500
it's like a small collection of it,

1611
00:49:42,500 --> 00:49:45,500
like the podcast episode's published is kind ones,

1612
00:49:45,500 --> 00:49:46,500
or like the videos,

1613
00:49:46,500 --> 00:49:47,500
like the huddle,

1614
00:49:47,500 --> 00:49:48,500
not huddle,

1615
00:49:48,500 --> 00:49:50,500
huddle.

1616
00:49:50,500 --> 00:49:51,500
American huddle.

1617
00:49:51,500 --> 00:49:52,500
American huddle.

1618
00:49:52,500 --> 00:49:53,500
Like his,

1619
00:49:53,500 --> 00:49:54,500
it's not the mp4 files you care about,

1620
00:49:54,500 --> 00:49:56,500
it's each post,

1621
00:49:56,500 --> 00:49:57,500
and the collection of it,

1622
00:49:57,500 --> 00:49:59,500
maybe it's also with the zaps,

1623
00:49:59,500 --> 00:50:00,500
or also with the reactions,

1624
00:50:00,500 --> 00:50:01,500
or also with the user's profile.

1625
00:50:01,500 --> 00:50:02,500
And you care,

1626
00:50:02,500 --> 00:50:03,500
you care,

1627
00:50:03,500 --> 00:50:04,500
I think you care mostly about this stuff,

1628
00:50:04,500 --> 00:50:06,500
because you want to find it again quickly.

1629
00:50:06,500 --> 00:50:07,500
Yes.

1630
00:50:07,500 --> 00:50:08,500
You want to refer to it.

1631
00:50:08,500 --> 00:50:10,500
You want to show a friend,

1632
00:50:10,500 --> 00:50:11,500
like how,

1633
00:50:11,500 --> 00:50:12,500
everyone is in this situation all the time.

1634
00:50:12,500 --> 00:50:13,500
You saw a video or something?

1635
00:50:13,500 --> 00:50:14,500
Yeah.

1636
00:50:14,500 --> 00:50:15,500
You have your phone,

1637
00:50:15,500 --> 00:50:16,500
you have no way of finding it again.

1638
00:50:16,500 --> 00:50:17,500
Yeah.

1639
00:50:17,500 --> 00:50:18,500
Like this is true for TikTok,

1640
00:50:18,500 --> 00:50:19,500
this is true for YouTube,

1641
00:50:19,500 --> 00:50:20,500
this is true for so many things.

1642
00:50:20,500 --> 00:50:21,500
Yeah.

1643
00:50:21,500 --> 00:50:22,500
And so this is true for Noster as well.

1644
00:50:22,500 --> 00:50:23,500
You want to show something,

1645
00:50:23,500 --> 00:50:24,500
it's like everything takes forever to load,

1646
00:50:24,500 --> 00:50:25,500
and I don't know,

1647
00:50:25,500 --> 00:50:26,500
like it's good.

1648
00:50:26,500 --> 00:50:27,500
You can't even start like the user profile.

1649
00:50:27,500 --> 00:50:30,500
Ah, I know a thing that solves it, by the way.

1650
00:50:30,500 --> 00:50:31,500
I know a search engine,

1651
00:50:31,500 --> 00:50:33,500
it's really good at showing it.

1652
00:50:33,500 --> 00:50:34,500
Yeah, yeah.

1653
00:50:34,500 --> 00:50:36,500
But it's the same thing that's kind of,

1654
00:50:36,500 --> 00:50:37,500
you look at it that way,

1655
00:50:37,500 --> 00:50:39,500
like you want to find an mpub again.

1656
00:50:39,500 --> 00:50:42,500
But you're not trying to find the npub

1657
00:50:42,500 --> 00:50:43,500
in some search engine.

1658
00:50:43,500 --> 00:50:44,500
That actually has a local cache,

1659
00:50:44,500 --> 00:50:46,500
and it will hit the local cache first.

1660
00:50:46,500 --> 00:50:47,500
So if you looked up an npub before,

1661
00:50:47,500 --> 00:50:48,500
it was immediately,

1662
00:50:48,500 --> 00:50:50,500
which sometimes you get false positives,

1663
00:50:50,500 --> 00:50:51,500
and it's terrible,

1664
00:50:51,500 --> 00:50:52,500
but that's the idea.

1665
00:50:52,500 --> 00:50:53,500
I want to...

1666
00:50:53,500 --> 00:50:57,500
Yeah, there's ways to make that really good.

1667
00:50:57,500 --> 00:51:01,500
The ways to make that local relays and stuff like that.

1668
00:51:01,500 --> 00:51:03,500
Step one is to build a shitty version.

1669
00:51:03,500 --> 00:51:04,500
So we need a shitty,

1670
00:51:04,500 --> 00:51:07,500
blossom local cache first.

1671
00:51:07,500 --> 00:51:10,500
Yeah.

1672
00:51:10,500 --> 00:51:12,500
And the thing is,

1673
00:51:12,500 --> 00:51:26,820
I like that we have Haven already so Haven is really easy to set up kind of and it could

1674
00:51:26,820 --> 00:51:32,580
be easier like you know again like start nine one click on but it's reasonably easy and

1675
00:51:32,580 --> 00:51:37,060
I think with the next the next easy step very low hanging fruit on the blossom side,

1676
00:51:37,060 --> 00:51:41,380
it's spelled a little too like talked with Jesus about this today by the way like a little

1677
00:51:41,380 --> 00:51:46,020
kind of little noster I don't know what what what how we call it but little noster help us

1678
00:51:46,020 --> 00:51:49,860
like little demons they run it back on something that you actually run you self-host you run on

1679
00:51:49,860 --> 00:51:56,900
your start nine you run on your armor like a like a noster noster helper tools helper set

1680
00:51:56,900 --> 00:52:01,620
little help a little like little gnomes little noster gnomes that help you do your things and

1681
00:52:01,620 --> 00:52:06,020
for example like I think I mentioned it already but just go over the old events and re-procast them

1682
00:52:06,020 --> 00:52:11,220
to the to the current real estate yes go over your blossom blobs and re-procast like re upload them

1683
00:52:11,380 --> 00:52:16,500
yep down go over everything download it upload it again to the new blossom service like do that

1684
00:52:16,500 --> 00:52:21,540
all the time do it all the time all those kind of things and some clients do it with like

1685
00:52:22,100 --> 00:52:26,900
like safe backups of the metadata safe backups of your follow list repair your follow list all those

1686
00:52:26,900 --> 00:52:34,100
kind of things but it's more than just a client it should be just a background demon the

1687
00:52:34,100 --> 00:52:38,740
piece is missing though in some sense I mean there's depending on the noster the noster way is

1688
00:52:38,740 --> 00:52:44,020
pretty easy like what percent of your events are on which realizes me but it's always like to run

1689
00:52:44,020 --> 00:52:48,020
the data but it doesn't have to be sparked just grab it all and re-procast it it's free where I

1690
00:52:48,020 --> 00:52:55,460
but I mean like you still missing you still have to come up with the explanation of why to the user

1691
00:52:55,460 --> 00:52:59,540
I just built it for power users first don't you know you're overthinking it I feel like I would

1692
00:52:59,540 --> 00:53:05,620
use that in an answer not as a not as a selling point but like yeah it's like the it's like the

1693
00:53:06,340 --> 00:53:14,260
noster repair kit noster self-healing kit noster kind of wound cream you know like the noster plaster that

1694
00:53:14,260 --> 00:53:19,940
just fixes all the things that are a little bit annoying right now just have all these little

1695
00:53:19,940 --> 00:53:24,580
fucking cron jobs working in the background I don't care how you build it it should be incredibly

1696
00:53:24,580 --> 00:53:30,580
easy it's probably like with neck and the cron job you can do 95% of the things already probably

1697
00:53:30,580 --> 00:53:37,140
hungry but you need like I think that's that's back to uh if no one's gonna build it I'm gonna

1698
00:53:37,140 --> 00:53:42,180
build it myself you guys have 12 months like if it's not built in 12 months I'm gonna just rebuild it

1699
00:53:42,180 --> 00:53:47,140
and build it myself like I'm doing right now with highlighter shout out to Pablo fucking hell man

1700
00:53:47,940 --> 00:53:54,020
fucking build the highlight of myself but like it's it's it's the the piece it was missing was the

1701
00:53:54,020 --> 00:54:00,660
local relay in some sense because why for this for that stuff I'm talking about right now not

1702
00:54:00,660 --> 00:54:05,300
not really the technical piece it was missing because otherwise you have to rebuild everything

1703
00:54:05,300 --> 00:54:13,460
again like the like the the the rebroadcasting the no why I'm I'm not following because because I

1704
00:54:13,460 --> 00:54:19,700
it's very easy to just get my events from all the relays and then rebroad costos to others

1705
00:54:19,700 --> 00:54:23,780
just make sure that my stuff stays alive yeah yeah it's like it's like a lost her pacemaker

1706
00:54:24,580 --> 00:54:32,980
yeah yeah it's always starts with a good name just keep my stuff alive because it's a bit

1707
00:54:32,980 --> 00:54:36,580
broad it's a real thing relays going in and out of the of existence it's a real thing

1708
00:54:36,580 --> 00:54:41,540
loss of service going down is a real thing if you have a pacemaker in place it becomes easier

1709
00:54:41,540 --> 00:54:45,860
with a local relay or with local compute like in other words I start nine or an umbral

1710
00:54:45,860 --> 00:54:52,020
oh sure sure sure sure sure but this could be a paid service but it gets a lot more complicated

1711
00:54:52,020 --> 00:54:59,380
as a paid service like you see this with um what just because I'm gonna build it all as a paid

1712
00:54:59,380 --> 00:55:03,620
service just to prove you wrong why is it more complicated why is it so much more complicated

1713
00:55:03,620 --> 00:55:08,900
you you you you you you get an end-pub and as long as there's credits I'm gonna run the crown jobs

1714
00:55:09,060 --> 00:55:16,580
I'm gonna get the relays from the end-pub I'm gonna get the blossom service from the end-pub

1715
00:55:17,300 --> 00:55:21,940
very easy to do and I'm gonna rebroadcast periodically that's a very easy thing to do you can't do

1716
00:55:21,940 --> 00:55:25,700
set sense on I'm not talking about private key stuff I'm just talking about the public stuff keep

1717
00:55:25,700 --> 00:55:31,300
the data alive keep it fresh I think maybe it's just harder because when you never do paid

1718
00:55:31,300 --> 00:55:36,180
service you got you run into the temptation of like you want to provide more services to the user

1719
00:55:36,180 --> 00:55:39,860
and then you end up over-building yeah yeah no no that's like it's a simple synchronization

1720
00:55:39,860 --> 00:55:43,940
so yeah it's all it's needed it's just re-broadcasting re-broadcasting re re-uploading I mean it's like

1721
00:55:43,940 --> 00:55:48,900
it's kind of like it's yeah it's it's exactly that because it's like it's what um bouquet kind of

1722
00:55:48,900 --> 00:55:52,580
dead I'm like exactly just automated just just running it back just running in the back running in

1723
00:55:52,580 --> 00:55:57,860
the background automated yes exactly yeah that's what I want to have for for both for notes and for

1724
00:55:57,860 --> 00:56:04,820
blobs yeah all right good one productive outcome all right the idea is out there yeah

1725
00:56:04,820 --> 00:56:08,580
again the clock is ticking 12 months 12 months if it doesn't exist it's 12 months I'm going to

1726
00:56:08,580 --> 00:56:15,540
build it myself it's going to be Claude 6.5 and Claude 6.15 and it's going to it's going to build

1727
00:56:15,540 --> 00:56:20,500
itself basically just feed in feed in the transcript feed in this audio file and it's going to build it

1728
00:56:20,500 --> 00:56:24,740
isn't it funny though it's like that's literally how open source works it's like you have the idea

1729
00:56:24,740 --> 00:56:28,900
like a year before and it's like if this doesn't exist then I'm going to be the one to build it and

1730
00:56:28,900 --> 00:56:33,380
it's like everyone is it's it's it's it's it's a it's a game of chicken everyone's like

1731
00:56:33,380 --> 00:56:38,420
he's sitting on a small a small pile of time yeah yeah all of this needs to just I don't want to be

1732
00:56:38,420 --> 00:56:44,580
the one you exactly I don't want to maintain it I don't want to actually like crap yeah yeah

1733
00:56:44,580 --> 00:56:48,660
it's it's it's it's literally scratch your own itch and sometimes the itch is just increasing

1734
00:56:48,660 --> 00:56:52,980
it's just like you know it's just I don't want to scratch it's just yet but if it doesn't

1735
00:56:52,980 --> 00:56:56,900
also do it if it doesn't go away in like six months I'm gonna sit down and build it literally

1736
00:56:56,900 --> 00:57:02,420
literally yeah it's so funny it's so funny how about tell it that's like just what drives

1737
00:57:02,420 --> 00:57:07,220
almost all of open source it's how it works it's how it works and somehow it works that's what makes

1738
00:57:07,220 --> 00:57:12,900
it so beautiful all right good I'm glad we got to the through the local stuff and and all those

1739
00:57:12,900 --> 00:57:16,980
kind of things what else has been on your mind I've been using apple sauce by the way so that's

1740
00:57:16,980 --> 00:57:22,740
been good it's been a good experience so far I don't want to jinx it now but it's so far so far

1741
00:57:22,900 --> 00:57:28,260
things have worked I yeah I'm trying to figure out like it's it's the same kind of feeling I'm

1742
00:57:28,260 --> 00:57:32,900
getting with like no struggle like I'm trying to figure out why it works because like I have

1743
00:57:33,700 --> 00:57:37,860
strong preferences especially with like development stuff and you kind of see it like with no

1744
00:57:37,860 --> 00:57:42,020
sure like I'm strong preferences how I want the nosttock to work and then I'm trying to like like

1745
00:57:42,020 --> 00:57:46,740
while building it I'm trying to like reverse engineer and figure out why does this way work

1746
00:57:47,540 --> 00:57:52,020
like why not like um why do why do you why do you have that preference why do you like it in that

1747
00:57:52,020 --> 00:57:57,620
way yeah why yeah because like apple sauce is built like I have strong preferences which is like

1748
00:57:58,260 --> 00:58:02,660
one of the core ones like there is there should be no black boxes there should be nothing that you

1749
00:58:02,660 --> 00:58:07,380
don't know when it does but then of course that makes everything harder to put together because now

1750
00:58:07,380 --> 00:58:12,980
you have to man you like you can't just say instantiate me an app make me an app and won't just do it

1751
00:58:12,980 --> 00:58:19,540
because it doesn't know what like so like but it works oddly enough like if I just like have a hard

1752
00:58:19,540 --> 00:58:23,940
line we're like there's nothing that does multiple things or there's nothing that does like

1753
00:58:23,940 --> 00:58:29,620
something you don't know what it's doing I finally can't make things easier to understand I don't know

1754
00:58:30,500 --> 00:58:36,580
it feels right I mean it's it's it's modular by by by design then it's very modular by nature yeah

1755
00:58:36,580 --> 00:58:42,820
if you follow this principle then stuff has to be very modular yeah yeah right like I think that's

1756
00:58:42,820 --> 00:58:48,340
a good you know like monolithic black boxes are kind of an anti pattern but the weird thing is like

1757
00:58:49,300 --> 00:58:53,060
the monolith isn't really the problem because it's kind of turning into that like the applesauce like

1758
00:58:54,180 --> 00:58:58,020
like I'm finding that I'm recreating everything in applesauce sure you have to right

1759
00:58:59,140 --> 00:59:02,180
well in some way yeah but like there's no reason I couldn't integrate with other stuff

1760
00:59:02,820 --> 00:59:08,660
but then it isn't the problem because like always like swap other things in I mean other stuff will

1761
00:59:08,660 --> 00:59:12,740
have will follow different patterns right so that's why you don't necessarily necessarily want to do it

1762
00:59:14,100 --> 00:59:17,700
yeah I don't know yeah

1763
00:59:18,500 --> 00:59:24,100
the applesauce thing is an interesting that it's really just me scratching my itch again

1764
00:59:24,100 --> 00:59:29,860
there we go like it's just like I want this to exist I want to do things this way I want to figure

1765
00:59:29,860 --> 00:59:35,620
out if they even work this way and then I build it and then maybe it's too maybe it's too too

1766
00:59:35,620 --> 00:59:42,980
soon to say but like I feel like it's almost done famous last words I'll remind you again

1767
00:59:42,980 --> 00:59:47,940
really really but like it's interesting because like just this last

1768
00:59:47,940 --> 00:59:55,540
core like the last few weeks like I have gotten I have finished I built things into it that I've

1769
00:59:55,540 --> 01:00:01,380
wanted in Nostra since I started Nostra fantastic that's good and it's like it's it wasn't like

1770
01:00:01,380 --> 01:00:06,420
I finally got around to them it's that because like for example like the outbox model like trying

1771
01:00:06,420 --> 01:00:10,820
to eventually figure out like what is the best way to connect to the most relays without killing

1772
01:00:10,820 --> 01:00:15,780
the device yeah whatever the preferences are yeah how cool is it that we have outbox now

1773
01:00:17,700 --> 01:00:22,740
yeah and the but the weird thing is like the problem was really difficult before and now suddenly

1774
01:00:24,500 --> 01:00:29,780
no suddenly the problem is that it's more easier in some sense like like it was less there because

1775
01:00:29,780 --> 01:00:38,100
like I already had I don't know it's just a little building blocks I guess problem is still not

1776
01:00:38,820 --> 01:00:43,620
you just you just mentioned about kind of what you what you what you built the last couple of

1777
01:00:43,620 --> 01:00:51,060
weeks what what had you the most excited in some sense like you've we're in week six now so we're

1778
01:00:51,060 --> 01:00:58,260
at the end of the cohort and I wasn't full disclosure I wasn't there the the whole time for

1779
01:00:58,260 --> 01:01:06,580
private reasons and what excited I had a bunch of things that that really excited that came out

1780
01:01:06,580 --> 01:01:12,340
of this one but I want to I want to I want to have your opinion first like kind of what was the

1781
01:01:12,340 --> 01:01:17,620
most interesting stuff for you the waves are high and loud so that's going to be that's going to be

1782
01:01:17,620 --> 01:01:20,340
we're going to get I'm going to get a hate me again for the audio quality

1783
01:01:25,060 --> 01:01:29,620
it's nothing comes for free like those conversations you have to suffer through the bad audio

1784
01:01:30,900 --> 01:01:35,620
just how it's going to go it's my favorite place by the way this one

1785
01:01:35,620 --> 01:01:42,260
it's like it's this is sunrise it's it's this and there's another spot in right near the harbor

1786
01:01:42,260 --> 01:01:48,100
yeah I try to come like once a day if I can if I can manage and just you know jump in when there's

1787
01:01:48,100 --> 01:01:54,580
high tide oh yeah so awesome but yeah I mean we had we had we had awesome people here like you know

1788
01:01:54,580 --> 01:02:01,300
we had the routes the guys here you know Pete win and and many again like Jesus your cell phone

1789
01:02:01,300 --> 01:02:09,140
that's on and I mean I could the list goes on Justin and Paul and like many many super capable

1790
01:02:09,140 --> 01:02:16,820
super bright people and I feel tell me tell me if I'm maybe kind of you know if my my spidey

1791
01:02:16,820 --> 01:02:22,820
senses are kind of misguiding me but it feels to me that it's it's similar to with Bitcoin even

1792
01:02:22,820 --> 01:02:27,300
if you're super smart and super technical it takes a while until you really get it like what makes

1793
01:02:27,300 --> 01:02:34,420
it special what makes it so interesting and so on and it feels to me that more people we're

1794
01:02:34,420 --> 01:02:39,220
hitting a threshold like we're hitting an important tipping point now I feel like where a lot of

1795
01:02:39,220 --> 01:02:43,540
super smart people that come outside from from the nostril are finally starting to get nostril and

1796
01:02:43,540 --> 01:02:48,740
the peel of it and so I feel like a lot of a lot of interesting stuff is happening right now like

1797
01:02:48,740 --> 01:02:52,740
um but I'm again I'm not gonna name the examples I want I want you to go first

1798
01:02:52,740 --> 01:03:02,100
interesting stuff is happening right now yeah I do it's it's it's it's just

1799
01:03:04,660 --> 01:03:11,300
it's more like this this this projects but like it feels like the most interesting thing was that

1800
01:03:12,500 --> 01:03:18,900
the ideas kind of like the crazy ones but the ideas we talked about a year ago or the ideas

1801
01:03:18,900 --> 01:03:23,140
that people there's people have been talking about for like since nostril got created you you

1802
01:03:23,140 --> 01:03:28,740
know pick your how far back you want to go there's starting to be understood by

1803
01:03:30,980 --> 01:03:33,220
people with different backgrounds like it's like the ideas

1804
01:03:35,780 --> 01:03:40,500
oh like no it's not only the crazy people anymore it's actually the ideas become feasible

1805
01:03:40,500 --> 01:03:45,380
right because the technology moved ahead yeah I think it's that it's like somehow

1806
01:03:45,380 --> 01:03:55,300
I don't know that was the most satisfying thing this summer I was the so the things the things we

1807
01:03:55,300 --> 01:04:06,500
talked about are starting to be implemented by people who are not me in some sense are not

1808
01:04:07,140 --> 01:04:13,540
like super early adopters like like you know like a selfish project like I have to like I

1809
01:04:13,540 --> 01:04:18,180
understand everything but it's like it's like when your idea gets out yeah and then someone else

1810
01:04:18,180 --> 01:04:22,820
builds it yeah that's very sad yes and maybe they don't even understand it maybe they do

1811
01:04:22,820 --> 01:04:27,060
understand it but it was like yeah yeah they they they agree enough with that idea to actually

1812
01:04:27,060 --> 01:04:31,140
sit down and build it and go through the problem of implementing it which is a which is a good

1813
01:04:31,140 --> 01:04:36,340
signal and I think like there was a lot of like a lot of the stuff that was this time around

1814
01:04:36,340 --> 01:04:41,460
those implemented or thought about or experimented with their demo was crazy ideas that were like

1815
01:04:41,460 --> 01:04:47,700
partially talked about a few to like last time last year but now someone who wasn't part of that

1816
01:04:47,700 --> 01:04:52,420
conversation has now implemented it yeah yeah yeah yeah ideas are like getting built

1817
01:04:52,420 --> 01:04:59,300
as what's demo impressed you the most so far I mean there's been a bunch it's like five times

1818
01:04:59,380 --> 01:05:05,460
20 it's like 100 demos yeah it's not literally literally yeah

1819
01:05:10,980 --> 01:05:15,860
well remember the demos recently but like the two things stood out most that weren't my own

1820
01:05:15,860 --> 01:05:22,500
because I think about them is like the DNS idea yeah the node DNS there was an idea that we

1821
01:05:22,500 --> 01:05:28,500
kind of had like we discussed last time but we didn't understand what it was yeah and this time

1822
01:05:28,500 --> 01:05:32,820
around it's like oh it's obviously it's just this yeah it was just I just to replace just try to

1823
01:05:32,820 --> 01:05:37,460
replace DNS and just just do that no surveys then the main name resolution which means you don't

1824
01:05:37,460 --> 01:05:43,140
query a central server yeah 40 IP you let your social network tell you what the IP is yeah yeah

1825
01:05:43,940 --> 01:05:49,860
and then so you hit the web of trust and the web of trust results it for you was like the uh

1826
01:05:49,860 --> 01:05:56,180
I think Paul and Diane demoed it um last week was like the local cash you wallet on the system

1827
01:05:56,980 --> 01:06:00,980
also something Paul's are talking about it's like the what is the payment UX kind of like on a local

1828
01:06:00,980 --> 01:06:07,220
system and that kind of like it wasn't like so much the demo wasn't so much impressive as it was

1829
01:06:07,220 --> 01:06:12,580
just kind of like finally put software in front like made it click because like we always knew that

1830
01:06:12,580 --> 01:06:19,460
there's going to be like local wallets local money on the device yeah but it was kind of like no

1831
01:06:19,460 --> 01:06:24,980
one's built it yet really yeah and it it is different once you have it in your hands it's different

1832
01:06:24,980 --> 01:06:29,380
than when it's just an idea and you're just talking about it yes yeah it's it's very transformative

1833
01:06:29,380 --> 01:06:35,220
to actually see something and use something and and actually see how it looks and feels and have

1834
01:06:35,220 --> 01:06:38,660
it in your hand and play around with it it's very different it's a lot of demo days are so

1835
01:06:39,380 --> 01:06:42,980
transformational and it's the same feeling you get when you're like developing software it's like

1836
01:06:42,980 --> 01:06:47,860
once you have like yeah you can talk about how an API is going to work if you talk about how some

1837
01:06:47,860 --> 01:06:52,260
plugin things going to work but once you have it like running on your local machine and you start

1838
01:06:52,260 --> 01:06:56,820
messing with it you're like you can feel that you can build things with it yeah and it's not just

1839
01:06:56,820 --> 01:07:04,580
like some hypothetical like oh this will be possible yeah absolutely and then it takes on a life

1840
01:07:04,580 --> 01:07:08,740
of its own right that's that's that's to me one of the most interesting parts if the idea is

1841
01:07:08,740 --> 01:07:14,580
actually right it's it's it's gonna get traction like blossom is a great example like you it's just

1842
01:07:14,580 --> 01:07:19,540
it it has it's what you think about it and what you do with it doesn't even matter anymore no

1843
01:07:19,540 --> 01:07:23,620
so it's just like it it's it's completely subsufficient in that sense the ideas out there

1844
01:07:23,620 --> 01:07:28,900
lots of people are working on it and are excited about it and it's just it has its own kind of

1845
01:07:28,900 --> 01:07:34,260
character and it gets its own life it has its own life and so on so I that's I want to have more

1846
01:07:34,260 --> 01:07:39,700
of that and I think a lot of the things we we discussed the last couple weeks have this character

1847
01:07:39,700 --> 01:07:44,100
like you already mentioned and know the NS one we already have we already have two two competing

1848
01:07:44,100 --> 01:07:50,900
implementations basically of how to do how to do the NS with our essential point of failure

1849
01:07:50,900 --> 01:07:54,980
and without the shit coin of course or any of the of the misguided ideas that were tried in the past

1850
01:07:55,540 --> 01:08:01,380
and and yeah something I think something is bound to work something will work of of that sort

1851
01:08:01,380 --> 01:08:07,140
because it it kind of has to the main names are such a shit coin it's like not even funny

1852
01:08:07,140 --> 01:08:12,900
and it's it's that that that will also get worse like as censorship increases kind of worldwide

1853
01:08:13,060 --> 01:08:16,660
censorship too but it's just like inflation increases like every like all this domain name is

1854
01:08:16,660 --> 01:08:22,660
a few thousand dollars now yeah sure sure that as well that as well yeah it's and no one kind of

1855
01:08:22,660 --> 01:08:28,660
cares we were already graffiti artists don't put the domain names on their graffiti's they

1856
01:08:28,660 --> 01:08:34,260
point so they put social media handles right yeah and so we're already past domains and have been

1857
01:08:34,260 --> 01:08:39,380
for a long long long while yeah like the only reason like a lot like the only reason a lot of

1858
01:08:39,380 --> 01:08:43,940
domains exist is because they are the default way the default thing you type into web browsers to

1859
01:08:43,940 --> 01:08:47,700
get there yeah if you could just type in social media handles to web browsers domains will be

1860
01:08:47,700 --> 01:08:51,300
not gone well absolutely yeah you would just they would not this one we are building all right now

1861
01:08:51,300 --> 01:08:58,740
basically that's the idea right like that's that's that's the future we're heading into yeah and

1862
01:08:58,740 --> 01:09:03,460
there's people building their own browsers shout out to Justin yeah I'm not I'm not sure I'm not

1863
01:09:03,460 --> 01:09:10,340
sure how far he's going to make it but it's an ambitious project but something like that will work

1864
01:09:10,340 --> 01:09:14,820
it's like it's one of those things that that that's another project that feels like the starting

1865
01:09:14,820 --> 01:09:20,020
you know what let's turn around that's very noisy again and let's let's hit the lighthouse once more

1866
01:09:20,020 --> 01:09:23,300
and then I'm kind of out of steam anyway I think the coffee's running out

1867
01:09:24,980 --> 01:09:31,460
now 90 minutes or so is my max and we must be close to that because I'm I'm I can't feel like

1868
01:09:31,460 --> 01:09:37,140
I'm I'm I'm slurring my speech and my brain is slowing down and like all the coffees I had in

1869
01:09:37,140 --> 01:09:46,980
the in the morning there just they left my system burns quickly no but the yeah it feels like

1870
01:09:46,980 --> 01:09:50,740
that that's that idea like just the the local brat and then the local browser but like a new

1871
01:09:52,580 --> 01:09:56,420
kind of like vibe coded browsers independent browser independent browsers it feels like the

1872
01:09:56,420 --> 01:10:04,180
same thing but it's like it's the right direction but the why is not obvious and the how

1873
01:10:05,140 --> 01:10:11,860
is not out like not just clone chrome yeah I mean there isn't there is there what's it called

1874
01:10:11,860 --> 01:10:18,180
the project ladybird right something like that yeah you I mean right now you have two choices

1875
01:10:18,180 --> 01:10:24,900
and the ladybird guy wants to create a third choice in terms of what browser engine you run

1876
01:10:24,900 --> 01:10:29,140
it's very hard to do yeah it's very very hard to do but I I hope that this will remain to be

1877
01:10:29,140 --> 01:10:33,860
fruitful and I mean you know we can kind of pick up the pieces and and hopefully have like

1878
01:10:34,980 --> 01:10:38,660
I think that's where things are heading right we'll have a master browser in some sense we'll

1879
01:10:38,660 --> 01:10:44,340
have something that looks and feels very similar to current browsers and current systems but it

1880
01:10:44,340 --> 01:10:50,980
just but it's not going to be like not to put in a browser probably no it's it's it's it's it's

1881
01:10:50,980 --> 01:10:57,540
a different way of doing in internet infrastructure a different way of looking up things and

1882
01:10:57,540 --> 01:11:04,500
communicating and and kind of a different almost like a different communication pattern in

1883
01:11:04,500 --> 01:11:11,380
some sense just speaking purely from a how do apps on the internet communicate with each other

1884
01:11:13,380 --> 01:11:18,980
hey I mean it's probably just go right back to locals just get more local APIs and more

1885
01:11:20,980 --> 01:11:29,220
I don't even think we'll have APIs for example well I think APIs are on their way out local like like

1886
01:11:29,220 --> 01:11:34,580
they'll be something that we won't ever we haven't seen yet and maybe this is what makes

1887
01:11:34,580 --> 01:11:40,180
nostrups so interesting is there's almost like a across app communication running on like the user

1888
01:11:40,180 --> 01:11:47,940
system like a lot of what native apps have already done where one app can talk to another yeah in

1889
01:11:47,940 --> 01:11:50,500
other words like it there's not a server in between there's going to be a lot of that in those

1890
01:11:50,500 --> 01:11:54,980
nostrups where you don't talk to the server that talks to their app you just talk locally on the

1891
01:11:54,980 --> 01:12:00,980
local local relay some local infrastructure you just have to get the signed data to the app somehow

1892
01:12:00,980 --> 01:12:07,620
yeah it doesn't matter if it if you bounce it off a server or not and that's kind of the yeah

1893
01:12:07,620 --> 01:12:13,380
that's so we can shortcut a lot of things makes things easier to build easier to understand easier

1894
01:12:13,380 --> 01:12:18,340
to debug it's just yeah it's kind of funny is like I missed that part of the internet in some

1895
01:12:18,340 --> 01:12:24,260
sense but like it kind of goes back to the personal computer yeah and like it was in I guess in some

1896
01:12:24,260 --> 01:12:28,820
sense it was like it was like personally people was default local first yeah and then you would

1897
01:12:28,820 --> 01:12:32,500
synchronize your emails online yeah and you would go up then you would go on like it was kind of

1898
01:12:32,500 --> 01:12:38,660
back to what I talked about earlier was like it didn't try to solve offline to make it online like

1899
01:12:38,660 --> 01:12:44,180
it was offline first and online was something that enhanced yeah in the personal computer days you

1900
01:12:44,180 --> 01:12:50,660
were online sometimes yeah and now you're offline sometimes yes and we move from thin clients and

1901
01:12:50,660 --> 01:12:57,700
main frames to the personal computer revolution back to main frames again where it's just like

1902
01:12:57,700 --> 01:13:01,700
everything's on the server Facebook Twitter Google and so on and you have thin clients like a

1903
01:13:01,700 --> 01:13:07,940
Chromebook and now we've actually capable of phones and so on that are way more capable than

1904
01:13:07,940 --> 01:13:14,100
your personal computer in the 90s ever was and so I hope that we can move back to you know like

1905
01:13:14,900 --> 01:13:22,020
doing more things on device not relying on centralized service I think oh it's go it's going to

1906
01:13:22,020 --> 01:13:27,140
go that way in some way because I think you see it with some of the vibe coding stuff is that

1907
01:13:27,700 --> 01:13:32,100
it doesn't really like the vibe coding setup works better when it's just when it's local

1908
01:13:32,820 --> 01:13:39,620
when you just because if you try to if you set it up right if you do if you if you run your own

1909
01:13:40,260 --> 01:13:44,660
MCP tools and if you have your own context available locally all those kind of things yeah in the

1910
01:13:44,660 --> 01:13:49,940
sense of the AI ones but I mean like what you build what you build like if you have local APIs

1911
01:13:49,940 --> 01:13:54,180
they're just like you give here just like tell the AI you're working in this system there's local

1912
01:13:54,180 --> 01:13:58,500
APIs there's less code it has to write then it's like okay go build a server that's going to do

1913
01:13:58,500 --> 01:14:02,020
user management yeah yeah yeah yeah I see I see it's something like it's kind of what

1914
01:14:02,020 --> 01:14:08,500
Nostra's given developers in that sense where it's kind of what the browser gave developers before

1915
01:14:08,500 --> 01:14:13,460
the browser was a thing it was like here's here's APIs to you have to build less yeah and it feels

1916
01:14:13,460 --> 01:14:17,300
like it's kind of a slow mark towards that like now Nostra's like here's authentication so now

1917
01:14:17,300 --> 01:14:21,860
you don't have to build authentication here that's a that's a great point you actually have to

1918
01:14:21,860 --> 01:14:27,140
build less if you want to build like I don't believe in everything clients even though I am an

1919
01:14:27,140 --> 01:14:32,260
everything client user don't get me wrong like they they have their play sets on I really do

1920
01:14:32,260 --> 01:14:36,500
believe in specialized apps and I'm starting to build specialized apps now again like search was

1921
01:14:36,500 --> 01:14:40,740
the first one second one is going to be reading third one is going to be writing I can and I already

1922
01:14:40,740 --> 01:14:46,020
know that much the missing piece was those local APIs to build less because you I don't have to

1923
01:14:46,020 --> 01:14:50,580
care about hey you lost your password hey how do you create an account hey all those kind of

1924
01:14:50,580 --> 01:14:55,940
things I don't have to care about what database to use what kind of yes it's it's it's a very thin

1925
01:14:55,940 --> 01:15:00,100
layer and it allows you to build very powerful applications and what I'm actually going to go

1926
01:15:00,100 --> 01:15:06,180
really hard on next is something that actually came out of the second cohort I think and nip 60

1927
01:15:06,180 --> 01:15:11,780
and nip 61 like yeah Nostra native cashew wallets not steps and all that jazz because the nice

1928
01:15:11,780 --> 01:15:17,460
thing is like if you if the money follows you around you just log in and you have a little bit

1929
01:15:17,460 --> 01:15:22,420
of pocket money to you know do steps and do things and unlock stuff and so on and so I want to

1930
01:15:22,420 --> 01:15:27,220
I want that kind of it's a tube it's too big of a conversation to start now but the interesting

1931
01:15:27,220 --> 01:15:33,620
thing going forward is going to be seeing the play between nip 60 and Nostra wallet connect

1932
01:15:33,620 --> 01:15:37,620
like they're not directly opposed to each other but there's a there's a new one there's a

1933
01:15:37,620 --> 01:15:45,940
difference in the methodology like Nostra nip 60 is your your money will be able to be synchronized

1934
01:15:45,940 --> 01:15:51,540
wherever you are yeah Nostra wallet connect is a way to bring your money to wherever you are

1935
01:15:51,540 --> 01:15:56,500
yeah I yeah they have different like very the nuance like makes very different use cases

1936
01:15:56,500 --> 01:16:01,380
to me to me interesting like what I can I can tell you what analogy I use to me Nostra wallet

1937
01:16:01,380 --> 01:16:05,620
connect is like you're checking account in some sense you're your master card you have you with

1938
01:16:05,620 --> 01:16:11,860
you or what have you and nip 60 to me is literally coins in your pocket and your pocket might have a

1939
01:16:11,860 --> 01:16:16,420
hole yeah yeah and and and you just one day you're looking to your pocket and says only half the

1940
01:16:16,420 --> 01:16:21,860
money there because it's literally how nip 60 works it's just like it's just like your your

1941
01:16:21,860 --> 01:16:26,180
your balance is always kind of a lie sometimes you get more money there exactly that's that's like

1942
01:16:26,180 --> 01:16:31,140
fine finding spare change under the couch you know or you put on you put on the pants that were in

1943
01:16:31,140 --> 01:16:36,100
the corner of your room for a week and there's like oh there's a 20 in there wow nice and you can

1944
01:16:36,100 --> 01:16:40,500
just do whatever with it yeah so that's nip 60 to me and I just want to I want to build like

1945
01:16:40,500 --> 01:16:45,700
a dozen different like Mike Nostra micro apps and they all have nip 60 so that's and just do

1946
01:16:45,700 --> 01:16:49,540
like weird stuff that I always wanted to build I always wanted to have just like fun little things

1947
01:16:49,540 --> 01:16:53,140
so that's why I think I think this is like this is like again like back to kind of what we started

1948
01:16:53,140 --> 01:16:59,220
with was like now feels like where things are coming together and what we talked about before

1949
01:16:59,220 --> 01:17:03,300
is now being created which then opens up a whole bunch of other stuff that can be created

1950
01:17:03,300 --> 01:17:07,860
and something I thought about last week with like nip 60 was like nip 60 synchronization sucks

1951
01:17:08,580 --> 01:17:15,940
but the entropy does kind of work so does that actually fix like if you just slap like you make

1952
01:17:15,940 --> 01:17:20,180
a nip 60 wall the only thing it does is synchronize with nip entropy does that actually make it reliable

1953
01:17:20,180 --> 01:17:28,180
then let's find out it potentially more reliable it might actually work better and then you know

1954
01:17:28,180 --> 01:17:33,460
local first and you do all that stuff and that's how that's that's what's so nice about like the

1955
01:17:33,460 --> 01:17:37,220
second reason why I love Nostra it's like if you build it in the right way people all that out

1956
01:17:37,220 --> 01:17:42,980
every little improvement will make everything else work better so if we have local

1957
01:17:42,980 --> 01:17:48,820
delays if we have all those kind of things like you're your your your nip 60 wallet will be

1958
01:17:48,820 --> 01:17:53,860
become more reliable all those kind of things you know like it's like a nip 60 wall you put

1959
01:17:53,860 --> 01:17:58,180
searching it and then you have a local like boom now the search is better yeah oh yeah you

1960
01:17:58,180 --> 01:18:03,060
sold me on Nostra relay tray was it you I think or was it Jesus like someone just told me that

1961
01:18:03,060 --> 01:18:07,460
Nostra relay tray hasn't it 50 I did yeah there you go like I love it already things like

1962
01:18:07,460 --> 01:18:11,460
for getting it like you know it's like time goes on and like there's these things that like

1963
01:18:11,460 --> 01:18:16,740
Nostra relay tray project it's like I've used it for everything but I just forgot that other people

1964
01:18:16,740 --> 01:18:20,660
don't use it yeah sure and like like for me like that's the default in Nostra is like just I have

1965
01:18:20,660 --> 01:18:24,980
a relay running and I just connect to it and I just use it but like it's not the default always

1966
01:18:24,980 --> 01:18:31,300
and so kind of need to go back and like rediscover some of these things like repubble like that's

1967
01:18:31,300 --> 01:18:35,220
the one thing I want to work on either this week or I did a little bit last week was like I want

1968
01:18:35,220 --> 01:18:40,980
Nostra relay tray but I want it to be more of a standard so I can stop writing a database of

1969
01:18:40,980 --> 01:18:46,500
every single app and just make the app either connect my Nostra relay tray or fall back to a database

1970
01:18:46,500 --> 01:18:50,500
yeah and that's like one less piece I have to put let's one less piece I have to put in every

1971
01:18:50,500 --> 01:18:56,980
single app did you ever look into into Nostra DB from well because that's kind of his I that's

1972
01:18:57,620 --> 01:19:02,260
that's why he built it he wanted to have a Nostra native database that's super fast and just

1973
01:19:02,260 --> 01:19:06,500
but I need to put it here and I want to bridge it with that at some point where my use case is I

1974
01:19:06,500 --> 01:19:11,460
need it for the browser and Nostra relay tray is not in the browser it's next to the browser

1975
01:19:11,460 --> 01:19:18,740
just in just in things that you can kind of build a wrapper around it and bring it into the browser

1976
01:19:18,740 --> 01:19:26,100
in some way I talked to him about it briefly a couple weeks ago you can but he has some wizardry

1977
01:19:26,100 --> 01:19:31,780
that could make this happen potentially I looked into it a little bit like you can the Nostra

1978
01:19:31,780 --> 01:19:37,380
DB side you almost can okay but there's a bunch of like browser security and stuff but like the

1979
01:19:37,380 --> 01:19:42,180
thing is it doesn't need to be in the browser if it's already on your system it's kind of like

1980
01:19:42,180 --> 01:19:48,820
same thing but Nostra relay tray but it's also it's I mean that's still an issue you're assuming

1981
01:19:48,820 --> 01:19:54,340
desktop users yes but again we're like citrine of the phone like again this interesting thing

1982
01:19:54,340 --> 01:20:00,820
with like the the the local stuff is like there's almost a hundred different ways you can run local

1983
01:20:00,820 --> 01:20:06,020
yeah the issue is not where we can run it it's that we don't have an easy bridge to it that's

1984
01:20:06,020 --> 01:20:09,380
always there you don't have that assumption that oh I just I don't need to because the issue with

1985
01:20:09,380 --> 01:20:13,780
locals is there's like 20 different ways where you can run it and your app has to find it every

1986
01:20:13,780 --> 01:20:19,940
single time it has to find where like for example if I'm on my local system I'm broke that local

1987
01:20:20,020 --> 01:20:24,980
points to my humble but my app doesn't know that and it needs to find it or needs to probe and

1988
01:20:24,980 --> 01:20:30,580
then every time I have to do that so it's probably good enough to just put all these all these

1989
01:20:31,700 --> 01:20:37,380
strings in your local relay list and just if it fails it fails yes yeah it's probably good enough

1990
01:20:37,380 --> 01:20:42,980
it's probably a good enough solution yes because we have a list of local relays already yes

1991
01:20:42,980 --> 01:20:46,340
that you can attach to your profile and it's just like you can just define it just like search

1992
01:20:46,420 --> 01:20:53,620
relays we have like like yeah we do I'm if this lets you set it and I my search uses it

1993
01:20:54,420 --> 01:20:59,060
so you just like if the user search relays set I'm gonna use those search relays if the user has

1994
01:20:59,060 --> 01:21:03,060
local relays set I'm gonna use the local relays okay that would be an interesting thing I need to

1995
01:21:03,060 --> 01:21:09,780
look into that for my app but yeah so I'm trying to build like there's a dumb way of like

1996
01:21:09,780 --> 01:21:15,620
doing it but I want it ideally I think it can be bootstrapped and I think it can work is like

1997
01:21:15,620 --> 01:21:23,060
take the the Nippo 7 approach to it which is was just take the decision away from the app and just

1998
01:21:23,060 --> 01:21:29,860
make it provided by default let's go out into the wind to close it out it's like a tradition

1999
01:21:30,740 --> 01:21:36,020
have like very strong winds blast into the microphones it's actually the microphones

2000
01:21:36,020 --> 01:21:41,140
the microphones filter out the wind perfectly well what happens is usually people start screaming

2001
01:21:41,220 --> 01:21:48,900
because you can't hear each other because of the wind the microphones are fine but yeah I mean

2002
01:21:48,900 --> 01:21:53,700
I feel like a lot of the things are coming together and you just have to be patient it's just

2003
01:21:53,700 --> 01:21:59,540
it's amazing how far we've come so so Noster was like no offense to Fiat Jeff but Noster was

2004
01:21:59,540 --> 01:22:06,500
dog shit like three years ago like when he came around it was so bad it's it's actually really

2005
01:22:06,500 --> 01:22:11,940
good though yeah and we have video logs we have Noster native podcasts we have stuff with like it works

2006
01:22:11,940 --> 01:22:17,300
faster than x for me it's more reliable than any other social media already I know well I keep

2007
01:22:17,300 --> 01:22:21,300
clicking x lengths that are shared in like various Bitcoin groups I'm saying they're like 10 seconds

2008
01:22:21,300 --> 01:22:26,100
this loading and it's loading and it's probably verifying my browser or something but like it sucks

2009
01:22:26,100 --> 01:22:30,580
and then I open up Noster's like my stuff's right there exactly it's my I mentioned this in

2010
01:22:30,580 --> 01:22:36,180
in the past episode actually but it's my way of checking whether I'm connected to the internet or not

2011
01:22:36,180 --> 01:22:41,300
there's like I open a system I refresh yeah and it's like if if there's no new stuff I know I'm

2012
01:22:41,300 --> 01:22:46,900
offline yep that's how fast and how good it is it's just like yeah it's my it's it's replaced like

2013
01:22:46,900 --> 01:22:52,900
my random googling of random phrases to check if I'm online it's just like one swipe and I

2014
01:22:52,900 --> 01:22:57,380
immediately know whether I have connection now the local relays will actually kill that in some

2015
01:22:57,380 --> 01:23:01,700
sense it's gonna make it worse yeah it's gonna make it worse you think you're online but you're

2016
01:23:01,700 --> 01:23:08,820
actually still offline yeah it's gonna be glorious hazard it's gonna be so good it's gonna be so

2017
01:23:08,820 --> 01:23:14,020
good yeah it's already so good it's like it's everything's coming together it's all coming together

2018
01:23:14,020 --> 01:23:19,700
now we have the tools we can buy code stuff in like a week the stuff I'm gonna show on Friday

2019
01:23:19,700 --> 01:23:26,660
I started three days ago so it's gonna be a 10-day project basically only from midnight to like

2020
01:23:26,660 --> 01:23:31,380
1am by coding time more or less you know like I've caught a little bit in between but you know

2021
01:23:31,380 --> 01:23:36,420
I've kids and it's just like I don't have the time and it's gonna it's already great it's already

2022
01:23:36,420 --> 01:23:42,180
better than highlighter ever was and it's gonna like Pablo is gonna just be so jealous it's like how

2023
01:23:42,180 --> 01:23:47,140
great highlight I could have been yeah that's that's also a nice thing about Noster you can always go

2024
01:23:47,140 --> 01:23:52,980
back and still build it right like all the ideas that were around in the early days we can still

2025
01:23:52,980 --> 01:24:00,340
pick them up and actually make it work yeah yeah like the local blossom cash that was an idea from

2026
01:24:00,340 --> 01:24:07,460
the beginning of blossom you can still like just sit down right now just pull it out it's like you

2027
01:24:07,460 --> 01:24:12,660
could just recreate things and there's no there's no you'll never be locked out yeah yeah

2028
01:24:13,540 --> 01:24:18,020
and building it the second time around doesn't hurt anything exactly it doesn't like take away

2029
01:24:18,020 --> 01:24:21,700
from anything you can just know you just don't need to move there's nothing like it's a it's a very

2030
01:24:21,700 --> 01:24:26,740
Buddhist protocol just begin again you can just begin it's like the local computer it's like

2031
01:24:26,740 --> 01:24:30,420
like you don't need to re-implement the file system like if you make a better file manager

2032
01:24:30,420 --> 01:24:35,140
it doesn't hurt anybody it's just better it also it doesn't go away your windows 95 machine if

2033
01:24:35,140 --> 01:24:38,900
you still have it in the closet somewhere you can just boot it up it will still work still works

2034
01:24:38,900 --> 01:24:44,660
that's that's the good tech that's that's that's just you know or I mean the obvious the obvious

2035
01:24:44,660 --> 01:24:49,060
example is like you know like unique style systems like your Linux machine you just you never

2036
01:24:49,060 --> 01:24:53,540
have to reboot it you never have to upgrade it will always work and it just it just works like

2037
01:24:53,540 --> 01:24:59,140
so I keep I keep coming back to like Nostra being the Linux of social media in some sense and

2038
01:24:59,140 --> 01:25:04,260
given enough time it will just take over certain markets just like Linux took took over both the

2039
01:25:04,260 --> 01:25:11,060
server market and also the mobile market like with Android but but more than that even like

2040
01:25:11,060 --> 01:25:15,700
you know every fucking fridge every microwave everything every TV runs runs Android

2041
01:25:16,340 --> 01:25:22,580
yeah so yeah so I'm completely completely cooked you have any last words because I want

2042
01:25:22,580 --> 01:25:27,220
to end it in the wind yeah just space in there no sure we just leave it at that yeah I got that

2043
01:25:27,220 --> 01:25:32,580
that's my brain's turning off all right fantastic let's leave it at that give me a big hug fantastic

2044
01:25:32,580 --> 01:25:43,620
that was great let's see if we recorded look one one hour 25 that's that's how how good my my

2045
01:25:43,620 --> 01:25:51,620
world does 90 minutes 90 minutes Vegas so I